Considering getting Angora rabbits

[fffarmergirl]

Hi. My name is Stacey, and this is my first time on this forum. I came here because I am considering getting some Angora rabbits and I want to know whether it is the right decision or not and, if so, where I might find some.

It's a big decision for me. I would like to raise Angora rabbits for fiber, but I really don't like the idea of keeping a rabbit in a wire cage. I have been talking to some people who have rabbits of other breeds, and they say they are quite intelligent animals that like to play.

I would probably raise them in a 8 X 12 foot insulated building we have and bring them in the house one at a time to groom them - but they wouldn't be living in the house with me. Maybe one of them would live in the house. Given the fact that I wouldn't be playing with them much, I would think they would be unhappy if they were raised in individual cages without a lot of human interaction. I don't know a lot about rabbits, though.

Is there a way to raise them ethically, so they'll be happy and also produce good, unmatted fiber? I was wondering if we could build something large and allow the females to be together instead of isolated in cages? The building we're thinking of using for them used to be a high-end chicken coop and it still has the laying boxes in it. Would it be a good idea to give them the run of the building with access to the laying boxes so each one could have her own space? Are they territorial that way?

Also, is it really necessary to take their babies away from them and just bring them in to nurse once a day? If you had the right kind of setup, wouldn't there be a more natural way to do it? This is probably a stupid question - but if each one had a nesting box as her own territory, would they give birth and nurse their young in the boxes, maybe?

I know all of you probably know this but just in case anybody who reads this isn't familiar with the way the fiber is harvested and thinks I would actually harm an animal, I want you to know that the bunny is simply held in the lap and brushed. From what I've heard, they enjoy the grooming.

If there is anybody on here familiar with Angora rabbits, I would really appreciate any advice you could give me. I will not get any if there isn't a way to raise them ethically.

 

[slavetoabunny]

I'm going to move this to the Rabbitry - I think you'll get better answers there.

 

[BlueGiants]

Hi Stacey, Welcome to the Rabbitry part of the Forum! Let me say right off, I don't raise Angora's, but have friends that do raise them for fiber.They don't usually get enough fiber to spinfrom just brushing. They usually clip their rabbits in the spring to harvest the wool. (I've helped with THAT!) Some breeders use the plucking method, it gives a better quality wool for spinning, but some rabbits (and people!)don't like it and are uncomfortable with it.

The Angora produces a better quality wool and more of it if kept outdoors. Most house Angora's are kept clipped short. My friends keep their does in seperate coops so they don't mess up each other's fur. (Peeing on each other, fighting, etc.). And they tend to be very contented bunnies. How much time you want to spend with them is up to you,dependant on how many you keep and how much time you have.

With a little extra effort, you can give them a very good quality of life in your little barn. Giving them lots of attention, toys to keep them from getting bored, treats, keeping cages clean (an absolute MUST, especially with long haired breeds) will keep you very busy. Add in to that weekly brushing and seasonal clipping, and your rabbits will get a lot of handling and love.

Here is an excellent site about raising Angora's that might answer some questions: http://www.angorarabbit.com/angora/angora-guide/index.htm

 

[clevername]

fffarmergirl wrote: "Is there a way to raise them ethically, so they'll be happy and also produce good, unmatted fiber?"

Of course!

"I was wondering if we could build something large and allow the females to be together instead of isolated in cages? The building we're thinking of using for them used to be a high-end chicken coop and it still has the laying boxes in it. Would it be a good idea to give them the run of the building with access to the laying boxes so each one could have her own space? Are they territorial that way?"

With angora rabbits, sanitation is a very big issue. Any hay, dirt or poop in their environment will work it's way into their fur, which will be more work for you. I've heard of people litter training these guys like any other rabbit but it takes work and even then I'd suggest trimming the butt fur short

I'm not so sure about having multiple rabbits roaming free together. Rabbits can bond, but keeping so many together like that will probably trigger fights.

"Also, is it really necessary to take their babies away from them and just bring them in to nurse once a day? If you had the right kind of setup, wouldn't there be a more natural way to do it? "

I use this method, and I recommend it because it makes for sweeter animals and healthier babies. Unfortunately Angora rabbits are selectively bred for wool production and not for their mothering ability. But because of this method, I rarely loose kits if I can get to them first.

Of course this is not the only way. You can leave a nestbox in with the doe and check periodically if you'd like.

"This is probably a stupid question - but if each one had a nesting box as her own territory, would they give birth and nurse their young in the boxes, maybe?"

They will give birth wherever they feel like it. I've forced does to deliver in nestboxes by filling up her cage with them if that helps.

"I know all of you probably know this but just in case anybody who reads this isn't familiar with the way the fiber is harvested and thinks I would actually harm an animal, I want you to know that the bunny is simply held in the lap and brushed. From what I've heard, they enjoy the grooming."

You can harvest via brushing but it's really best if you take them out of coat entirely periodically. Shearing is great in the summer but will require a steady hand. Plucking will give you the best fiber for spinning though. (I've put together a guide on my blog.... http://heorotrabbitslog.blogspot.com/2008/12/how-to-pluck-angora.html

Hope that helps!

 

[fffarmergirl]

Thanks, everybody, for your quick and helpful responses!

I'm kind of disappointed to hear that plucking isn't the best method because I was browsing through the forum and saw something about shears being very expensive. I'll probably have to brush for a little while, until I can afford the shears. What about human hair clippers? I wonder if those would work?

How many rabbits do you think I could keep in my little building if I keep them in cages? Perhaps more importantly - how many rabbits would I have time to care for if I planned to spend about 30 minutes per day at it?

So they seem to be pretty content in hutches? I live in the far Northern US and it gets very cold here (15 below last night, and sometimes it gets to 30 below in the colder months). Maybe I could keep the hutches outdoors until the temperatures started getting really low at night and then move the hutches into the little building?

I wonder if a breeder would sell me a couple of does who'd been mated?

I'm so excited I can hardly think of anything else! I think we're going to have to drive quite some distance to find bunnies, but we can make a weekend trip out of it.

Any recommendations for breeders in Northern Wisconsin, Northern Michigan, or the Upper Peninsula?

Thanks for the links - I'm going to check them out.

 

[clevername]

"I'm kind of disappointed to hear that plucking isn't the best method because I was browsing through the forum and saw something about shears being very expensive. I'll probably have to brush for a little while, until I can afford the shears. What about human hair clippers? I wonder if those would work?"

I disagree, I actually do most of my harvesting via plucking.

But when I shear I use craft scissors--they work just as well. There's a trick to shearing so you don't knick your bunny too. Lay the blades flat against the skin, then tilt the scissors up so they are at an angle pointing away from the skin. Cutting this way will ussually keep you from getting too close. The real trick is avoiding those 2nd cuts...yuck.


"How many rabbits do you think I could keep in my little building if I keep them in cages? Perhaps more importantly - how many rabbits would I have time to care for if I planned to spend about 30 minutes per day at it?"

Better to start small and add rabbits as you learn what you can really handle. I started with two juniors.


"So they seem to be pretty content in hutches? I live in the far Northern US and it gets very cold here (15 below last night, and sometimes it gets to 30 below in the colder months). Maybe I could keep the hutches outdoors until the temperatures started getting really low at night and then move the hutches into the little building?"

Angora rabbits, as long as they have a fur coat, do fine in temperatures well below freezing as long as they out of the direct rain, wind and snow.

However for summer temperatures you'll have to have a plan. I have a AC unit in my barn, some people take all their rabbits out of coat or move them into the shade and supply ice cubes for their water. They are very prone to overheating.


"I wonder if a breeder would sell me a couple of does who'd been mated?"
I'm sure if you requested it.



"Any recommendations for breeders in Northern Wisconsin, Northern Michigan, or the Upper Peninsula?"
The National Angora Breeders Club has a listing by state...
http://nationalangorarabbitbreeders.com/blog/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=64&Itemid=78

 

[fffarmergirl]

Thanks, Clevername!

I'll bet heat won't be a problem. We like to joke that summer up here is just 4 weeks of poor dog sledding. It actually does occasionally get up in the '80s. Rarely, it gets in the 90s. I'm sure we can come up with a way to keep them cool when it gets that warm - maybe fans?

I'm going to call a couple of breeders later today and tomorrow. If we started off with only 2 juniors, we wouldn't even need to wait until Spring! My husband is almost as excited about it as I am.

This is a really helpful forum, by the way.

 

[BlueGiants]

Sounds like a great plan. Angora's are really sweet rabbits.

fffarmergirl- you should list your location on your profile. Even just your state would help. (We can't tell how warm or cold it gets "up" by you...)

 

[pamnock]

clevername wrote:

But when I shear I use craft scissors--they work just as well. There's a trick to shearing so you don't knick your bunny too. Lay the blades flat against the skin, then tilt the scissors up so they are at an angle pointing away from the skin. Cutting this way will ussually keep you from getting too close. The real trick is avoiding those 2nd cuts...yuck.

My son and I used to shear Angoras for a breeder, and the small embroidery scissors did work great and are very inexpensive. They do dull rather quickly on the wool, so you also want to get a good sharpener. As Clevername mentioned, great care must be taken to avoid knicking the rabbit. Many rabbits develop a fear of clipping due to careless shearing.

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned the major expense of a blower. Brushing the wool strips the coat of its density, so breeders use blowers to groom Angoras and to keep the mats out of the coat.

Pam

 

[fffarmergirl]

Thanks for the suggestion, BlueGiants - I've added my location.

I talked to a breeder yesterday and we're planning a trip to Northern Illinois at the end of February for a buck and two does!!! So now we're working on getting the cages, etc. We're going to keep them indoors in our cold pantry until Spring, when we can get our little building set up for them.

The warm weather plan will be to move them into deep shade. If we have an unusually warm spell, we'll put some fans on them.

How do you keep the water from freezing? Do you buy heated water bottles for each bunny?

Thanks for the suggestion for using craft scissors to harvest the wool. That's what I'll do at first. I even found a good youtube video of somebody doing it. I'll start out with craft scissors (with a sharpener) and a drop spindle and then work my way up to more rabbits, shears, and a spinning wheel. There's a spinners guild here that I can't wait to join.

I'm a little anxious about ending up with more rabbits than we can afford to care for, but I'm sure that's a concern for all breeders. I have a limited # of people who might be willing to take one and who I know would care for it well. So - bunny birth control will be top priority. No boys with the girls at any time, unless it has been planned out! Do the bucks get cranky when then can't do the thing they were born to do?

 

[naturestee]

Just a thought, in case you decide not to breed you can spay the rabbits and they'll be much easier to litter train (and bond with each other). Wood pellet litter doesn't stick to fur although I'd still prefer a grated litter box which you can make easily or buy metal ones through KW Cages I think. Honestly I don't think wire cages arebad as long as proper resting mats are used. You can buy ones specifically made for this throughrabbit cage suppliers that are slitted to allow urine, etc. through but are nicer on the feet.

We have hadtwo or threeEnglish angoras come through our shelter in the last year as there is a local breeder who will sell them as pets if requested. They're beautiful rabbits, I just wish people wouldn't get them unless they're interested in the wool. If you want nice wool you'll keep therabbit clean and mat free, unlike some of the long-haired rabbits that have come in!

Let me know if you wantme to keep an eye out for a (spayed)Angora for you. (Or a black fuzzy lop girl, she's a doll.) It might be a good way to start, with no hormones to deal with. I wouldn't mindmeeting you half way if it gets a rabbit out of my crowded shelter!:biggrin2:

 

[fffarmergirl]

Naturestee, that's what I've been debating! I was kind of worried about spaying, though, because I didn't want to have to drive all the way to a breeder again if I decided I needed more rabbits.

I would LOVE it if you'd keep your eyes open for spayed or neutered angora rabbits for me! Are they English Angoras?

Maybe what I'll do is go ahead and get these three, since I've already discussed it with the breeder, but not breed them. Then I can keep in contact with you and add rabbits as I'm able.

Of course, if you happen to come across any used hutches or cages that might help. I can only get as many as I can afford cages for.

 

[naturestee]

I think they were all English Angoras, although I seem to remember a French Angora also. I heard Manitowoc had one but it sounded like an oversized Jersey Wooly to me. I'll certainly keep an eye out for you.

If you do some reading you may be able to make your own cages. I'm not sure if we have instructions for appropriate cages in the Library but it's worth checking. A lot of us useNIC cages but they're not safe for outdoors, even in a shed. Otherwise do a Google search for rabbit breeder cages. I know I've seen instructions around. If they're going into a shed then a wire cage will probably be better than a hutch- no wood to rot, easier to clean (especially disinfect), etc. And less expensive.

 

[fffarmergirl]

My hubby's very handy and could make the cages, but he was looking through the Tractor Supply catalog and said, for the price, it would be better just to buy the kits.

Although we're starting out small, I have a feeling we might end up with quite a few rabbits. My mother is handicapped and has a lot of time on her hands. She's bored out of her mind,and when she found out I was getting these rabbits she got very excited because she wants to learn to spin and she's hoping I'll send her a lot of wool. I have a feeling that if she likes spinning, it will be a lot of work keeping her in wool!

How many rabbits do you think it would take to keep a woman spinning about 4 hours per day? She also lives with my two very bored aunts. I could imagine the three of them fighting over the spinning wheel and wanting to keep it going 24/7.

I'll have to put my foot down with her if she gets into it heavily - tell her she has to pay for the cages, at least.

 

[polly]

Hi you have had great advice I just wanted to add that you only take the babies away and take them back to feed if you are having problems with teh mum not mursing or not taking care of the babies. This is relatively unusual so you would not have to wrooy about that. I think starting with trio is perfect for you. It can be really overwhelming if you get to many to start off with especially when they need a lot of grooming!!

Make sure you show us pictures when you get them :biggrin2:

 

[fffarmergirl]

polly wrote:

Hi you have had great advice I just wanted to add that you only take the babies away and take them back to feed if you are having problems with teh mum not mursing or not taking care of the babies. This is relatively unusual so you would not have to wrooy about that. I think starting with trio is perfect for you. It can be really overwhelming if you get to many to start off with especially when they need a lot of grooming!!

Make sure you show us pictures when you get them :biggrin2:

I'm sure there will be pictures!

I've resolved not to overwhelm myself. I will put my foot down with myself and only get three and not let the boy anywhere near the girls until I have empty cages in place waiting for more bunnies and I'm sitting around, tapping my fingers because I'm bored and need more to do. Of course, if some rescue rabbits come up I might relax the rule just a little.

I'm glad to hear the babies don't have to be kept away from the mamas. Living in a cage and having your babies taken away from you would be just awful!

 

[VelveteenLopGuru]

fffarmergirl wrote:

Thanks, everybody, for your quick and helpful responses!

I'm kind of disappointed to hear that plucking isn't the best method because I was browsing through the forum and saw something about shears being very expensive. I'll probably have to brush for a little while, until I can afford the shears. What about human hair clippers? I wonder if those would work?

How many rabbits do you think I could keep in my little building if I keep them in cages? Perhaps more importantly - how many rabbits would I have time to care for if I planned to spend about 30 minutes per day at it?

So they seem to be pretty content in hutches? I live in the far Northern US and it gets very cold here (15 below last night, and sometimes it gets to 30 below in the colder months). Maybe I could keep the hutches outdoors until the temperatures started getting really low at night and then move the hutches into the little building?

I wonder if a breeder would sell me a couple of does who'd been mated?

I'm so excited I can hardly think of anything else! I think we're going to have to drive quite some distance to find bunnies, but we can make a weekend trip out of it.

Any recommendations for breeders in Northern Wisconsin, Northern Michigan, or the Upper Peninsula?

Thanks for the links - I'm going to check them out.

Hi there, and welcome! I am in North of Michigan, in Pellston/Cross Villiage area. I have one English Angora for show/4-H and a pet, and she did ok outside except she started to get frost ALL over her, and it was starting to chill her when it got below zero. She was in our old barn, and there was protection there. She was on a all wire floor but I would put some straw down and then clean it out everyday. Now, we have her in our backroom in the pantry in the house and it is like fourty or fifty degrees in there and she does great. She seems too warm when she is out in the kitchen hopping around. I just have been grooming her once or twice a week, and have been feeding her a handful of hay to insure she doesnt get wool block. What kind of Angoras are you interested in? Some are more hardy then others, and take less time with their coats. I used to have both English, Satins and Frenches. I really love the English, they are just sooo showy and cute. The Satins have the great looking wool though. I would love it if they made a satin English Angora. lol

 

[fffarmergirl]

Hi there, and welcome! I am in North of Michigan, in Pellston/Cross Villiage area. I have one English Angora for show/4-H and a pet, and she did ok outside except she started to get frost ALL over her, and it was starting to chill her when it got below zero. She was in our old barn, and there was protection there. She was on a all wire floor but I would put some straw down and then clean it out everyday. Now, we have her in our backroom in the pantry in the house and it is like fourty or fifty degrees in there and she does great. She seems too warm when she is out in the kitchen hopping around. I just have been grooming her once or twice a week, and have been feeding her a handful of hay to insure she doesnt get wool block. What kind of Angoras are you interested in? Some are more hardy then others, and take less time with their coats. I used to have both English, Satins and Frenches. I really love the English, they are just sooo showy and cute. The Satins have the great looking wool though. I would love it if they made a satin English Angora. lol

Hi, VelveteenLopGuru. I've been to Pellston! It was before we moved up here, on our way to our first visit up here.We were on our way from Kansas City to Escanaba and the winds in Escanaba changed so they couldn't land there. They turned around and dropped us off in Pellston and left!All I remember was a tiny little airport way out in the middle of nowhere - nothing but forest all around.A guy charged us $20 apiece each way to bring us to a little motel. Of course, now that I've been living up here in the woods in the middle of nowhere, it wouldn't seem like such a big deal but at the time I thought we were at the end of the earth!

Thanks for the info about your bunny. Our pantry is about 40-50 degrees as well, but it doesn't have room for many rabbits. I could probably keep 5-6 in there. Maybe 5-6 will be all I'll need!

I wonder what a satin/English cross would be like?

 

[VelveteenLopGuru]

fffarmergirl wrote:

Hi there, and welcome! I am in North of Michigan, in Pellston/Cross Villiage area. I have one English Angora for show/4-H and a pet, and she did ok outside except she started to get frost ALL over her, and it was starting to chill her when it got below zero. She was in our old barn, and there was protection there. She was on a all wire floor but I would put some straw down and then clean it out everyday. Now, we have her in our backroom in the pantry in the house and it is like fourty or fifty degrees in there and she does great. She seems too warm when she is out in the kitchen hopping around. I just have been grooming her once or twice a week, and have been feeding her a handful of hay to insure she doesnt get wool block. What kind of Angoras are you interested in? Some are more hardy then others, and take less time with their coats. I used to have both English, Satins and Frenches. I really love the English, they are just sooo showy and cute. The Satins have the great looking wool though. I would love it if they made a satin English Angora. lol

Hi, VelveteenLopGuru. I've been to Pellston! It was before we moved up here, on our way to our first visit up here.We were on our way from Kansas City to Escanaba and the winds in Escanaba changed so they couldn't land there. They turned around and dropped us off in Pellston and left!All I remember was a tiny little airport way out in the middle of nowhere - nothing but forest all around.A guy charged us $20 apiece each way to bring us to a little motel. Of course, now that I've been living up here in the woods in the middle of nowhere, it wouldn't seem like such a big deal but at the time I thought we were at the end of the earth!

Thanks for the info about your bunny. Our pantry is about 40-50 degrees as well, but it doesn't have room for many rabbits. I could probably keep 5-6 in there. Maybe 5-6 will be all I'll need!

I wonder what a satin/English cross would be like?

I have been up to the UP twice in my life, and it is beautiful. haha yeah, the Pellston airport is the main attraction in Pellston, it is the only big thing there lol. I am glad there is someone up here that knows what its like to be experiencing the cold of the north LOL. Its crazy cold up here. The Angoras are a breed that need special attention, no doubt. But they are awsome. What type(s) do you have?

 

[clevername]

fffarmergirl wrote:

I wonder what a satin/English cross would be like?

Believe me I've speculated. The satin gene has the side effect of making the coat much less dense. Satin Angora yield MUCH less wool than the English, but that satin quality is just so lovely in yarn form. I can't get enough of it.

I'm also of the opinion that Angora are all very sweet rabbits, but the Satins are a little off. I mean I love them dearly but mine always seem to have their quirks. I had a litter of screamers who screamed when they wanted water and food. Some of them are cage territorial but are the sweetest lap bunnies, while others are very gentle and affectionate but can't stand to be carried or posed. I imagine a cross with an English would mellow them.

Of course I can't really bring myself to experiment. The Satin gene is recessive so it would take at least two breeding before you'd see that gene expressed again.