Brothers > Bonded to unbonded - Help please!

[catzeyezuk]

Good day all
I have 2 male bunnies that are 10 months old. One brown, one white. Brown has always been dominant over the white one but never caused a problem. Recently brown was humping white one constantly, white one just seemed a bit down but carried on eating while brown one did his thing. Then white started to try to get him back and I witnessed a couple of tiny fights.

I decided then to get them castrated. Brown one's op went well, and so did white one but he had a bit of trouble with recovery. They both came home from vets and into one cage together. White one seemed withdrawn and stopped eating properly, brown one was obviously recovering faster and eating fine.

White one had to go back to vets emergency to have more pain relief, force fed fibre stuff and digestion medication. He started to get better at home over next day but I had to separate them as brown one had recovered by now and wanted to hump white one again! At this point white one had very swollen testicles and I didn't think he needed stress and physically couldn't take brown one's humping.

Separated means white one in a large indoor cage and brown one in a pen right next door with just metal bars x 2 between them. They could touch and see and smell each other.

today I just tried popping brown one back in for a while just after I had cleaned the cage out. White one was SO nervous even though brown one didnt seem too interested in him. Brown was just sniffing, eating hay and stuff and the white one was stamping like crazy and running madly away if brown came near. I tried distracting them both with treats but in the end the white one seemed so distressed I removed brown one. White one soon got over it and started eating again quickly after.

What do I do here? Do I need to rebond them? Brown seems ok to be fair and very very chilled out but I think because of the ordeal the white one has been through he has freaked out. He has always been scared and pathetic in lots of other ways since we got him (so he's called Dopey!) and the brown one has always been the friendliest, bravest and most advernturous (so he's called Danger!).

Any help/advice much appreciated. At the moment they are indoors but when they have healed up and weather improves they wll be back outside in their 8 x 6 foot run and 2 x 2 foot bed in the shed.

Thank you:bunnieskiss

 

[Chrisdoc]

Sounds like exactly what happened to mine and they unbonded after the neuter after living together since birth.

You will probably need to keep them separated and rebond them on neutral territory. I used the bath with blankets or towels in the bottom and put them in there for about 5 minutes the first day to see how it went and gradually increased it during the week. They were back to normal after the first 7 days and although I didn´t rehome them together again as my white one also was still not happy to be in the same cage enclosed, they were let out together and got on fine cuddling up to sleep on the rug in front of the window.

Unfortunately, I am having to bond them again as I was away looking after my friend´s dog over Christmas and the New YEar and thought I could take them with me but couldn´t due to issues of space and bunny proofing. I spent much less time with them and they missed their run time at night and something happened so I have to bond them again.

I´m sure that if you are patience with them for the time it takes, they hopefully will get on again. As I said, I didn´t rehome them together as it worked better for them second time around but they did spend most of the time together out of the cage.

 

[catzeyezuk]

Thank you! I am so glad it's not a unique case! I would love them to be rehomed together but guess I will have to see how it goes. Can easily try the bath trick as they will be in the house for the next few weeks. The way their outside place is set up is so they have one "hutch" together which is open to their big run 24/7. Would be a lot of trouble to great 2 hutches and that would mean they also don't get all day access to the run, which would be a shame :S

Will write tonight off but will try bath tomorrow and let you know Thanks

 

[Chrisdoc]

I was able to do that as I had two cages with three rabbits but attached an enclosure to house the third one. In the end, after a couple of months, the two brothers are still housed separately but one is housed with the third rabbit which is a bit younger and they have an open case and a larger area where there is plenty of space for them both. I just did it because even after I rebonded, Snowy was still thumping and running away from Houdini in the cage but was happy to be with him and spend time with him in the living room with no confines.

It took me seven days the first time but I would have persevered if it had taken longer. You do need to supervise and at the first signs of any agression or serious fights, separate them and finish the bonding session and try again the day after.

I´m sure you´ll get more advice from others on here who probably have more experience than me, all ideas are always welcome.

If you have another room which you can use and maybe an xpen where you could put them together you could try that as well. It just has to be on neutral territory where neither of them have been before.

 

[agnesthelion]

What happened with your two is actually very common. Two unneutered males cannot, IMO, be considered bonded. So before their neuter, they were getting along until hormones kicked in.

Alot of the times, a vet trip or a neuter than throws another wrench in a bunny bond. So you had another variable working against you

Lastly, same sex bonds are generally the most difficult and more prone to spontaneous fighting.

I agree with Chris to start bunny dates on neutral territory. You might even want to consider, since the white one seems so distressed, to completely seperate them (ie cages in different rooms) for 2 or 3 weeks so they "forget" about each other. Then start daily bunny dates.....very brief to start like 5 or 10 minutes, and work up from there.

Also, keep in mind it can take 6-8 weeks for hormones to completely dissipate after a neuter so not sure when the surgery was done but it's something to keep in mind when you start bonding again.

Best of luck I sure hope you can bond them again

 

[Blue eyes]

Your post doesn't mention how long it's been since the neuters. As Lisa stated, it can take up to 8 weeks for hormones to dissipate. I wouldn't try putting them back together if that amount of time hasn't yet passed.

If it has been beyond 8 weeks, then, yes, you will have to try to bond them starting from square one. If they've been fighting, then it's good to give them that 2 weeks apart so they can forget about it.

The falling out of a bond once mature is quite common.

Good luck!

 

[catzeyezuk]

Thanks everyone for your advice. Operations were only last week so looks like quite a while before it might work. I am still going to try them together for 5 - 10 mins in the bath and build up if I can.

Thanks all

 

[Blue eyes]

Just a warning... any fights they get into now will greatly decrease their chances for a successful bond later. If they've only been neutered a week, those hormones are likely going to influence their behavior for the worse. So, in your case, trying to bond sooner than later won't increase chances of success, but could certainly decrease chances.

The way you worded the last post sounded like you were going to start sessions right away. That's why I thought it best to warn you against that.

 

[catzeyezuk]

They are living next door to each other at the moment and the white one isn't acting scared or anything so I will keep them like that. Will not start the bonding yet

 

[catzeyezuk]

Am also now looking online for a second hand cage so I can permanently keep them separated for now. I've never needed 2 before but seems now I do!!

 

[Blue eyes]

Rather than spending money on a 2nd cage (which you hope you won't need for too long), you could get an x-pen instead. The x-pen can serve as a temporary cage and then you can make use of it later as well -- for limiting an exercise area or setting up a temporary outside play area on nice days, etc.

Here I used it as a temp. cage:

Ignore the mesh I added to it during bonding.

The following pic shows how I now use it as a surround to their cage whenever I'm away from the house. And the last pic is from a couple days ago when we had some nice weather and I brought them outside using the x-pen.

 

[catzeyezuk]

Hello everyone! I'm back. Today I tried the first bath 5 minute session with my two brothers. Straight away the white one acted submissive and after 3 minutes the brown one started to bite the white one's bum I moved the brown one off him and watched for another minute but he tried to bite him again on the tummy and nose and the white one, quite understandably, stamped and tried to run. I've separated them again now and brought the white one to the living room with me and within a few seconds he is binkying and back to his happy self. Do I just try again tomorrow and see what happens? Appreciate any advice

 

[Blue eyes]

Sorry I just saw this post. It's been a few days. How are things going?