Breeders: Pets or Livestock?

[Shaded Night Rabbitry]

So. I've noticed a couple of different mentalities at shows.

Those who view their rabbits as purely livestock, those who view most of them as livestock, some as pets, and those who view their entire herd as pets.

I'm just wondering where everyone else is on this topic.

For further discussion: what's the pros and cons to each view point?

 

[wooly_queen]

Livestock...I think things that are being eaten. lol Like the sheep, pigs, cows, chickens...

I don't eat my rabbits, so I view all 30 of them as pets.

 

[CoolWaterRabbitry]

Um, I would think there are a few pros and cons.

I like to think of my herd as pets, all spoiled and babied. BUT I also think of them as livestock in a way, to further detach myself from problems that arise. i.e. sickness, death, sales, etc.

I love all my bunnies, love the babies too, butI have to knock myself down to the basics; 1. To have rabbits that better my herd and the breed standard, 2. To have nice showing/breeding stock that I always can better, 3. That is one dies, its natural way of life (as long as it was something I could have prevented).

Like when I had my second litter a few days ago, one was a doa and then there were six surviving. I hated pulling the dead kit out. It was heartbreaking. But what was worse was cleaning out the nest box and finding the second dead kit that was cut open and blood was everywhere. That was harder than I ever thought it would be. BUT for the future of the other six I had to clean it out.

That's where my 'livestock' sets in and pushes my feelings aside. My rabbits either breed or are shown. If they can't do either, then it would be time to sell. That's my way of thinking about livestock and I'm sure someother breeders do the same when culling their herd.BUT I love each and every one of my babies, before I'd sell I'd be positive they'd go to a home that would give them the proper care and attention that they deserve.

Pros to livestock:
1.) good breeding/showing stock
2.) less of a heartbreak for death or sale of an animal


Cons to livestock:
1.) less (maybe) personal one-on-one time with animal
2.) ... had something elsethat I had thought of but now escapes me..

Pros to pet:
1.) one-on-one time with each animal
2.) (maybe but can be with livestock too) better care of animal

Cons to pet:
1.) unable to cope with death of animal
2.) unable to cope with sale of animal, leaving a 'useless'(useless in a way to breed/showing) animal
3.) failing to make standard of the breed with less quailty animal
4.) following #3, leads to lower quailty animals with less market value

So I guess I'm split 50/50 between the two, but all of these are just my take on it.

 

[Shaded Night Rabbitry]

X3

This topic came from an odd place for me. My first homebred girl is now finally due with her first litter. Now for the first 8 weeks of her life, I treated her as a pet. Lovey dovey, with tons of play time. Once she started showing, she became a show rabbit. I only brought her out for posing, grooming, and each rabbits hour of outside time every few days.

After a few months, she just sorta found her way to the bottom, furthest cage. I didn't exactly forget about her, but she wasn't foremost in my mind. Last month, after her last show, we decided to breed her. Now she's on day 27.

So I brought her upstairs, like the old times. Left her cage door open. She immediately came to the bed, jumped up, and sniffed around me. I grabbed her, set her on my chest, and she automatically went to sleep... Which is where she still is, an hour later. 8D

Which got me thinking about how I treat each rabbit. I have some, mainly my show crew, that's treated like pets. They get much more one on one time.

Then there's my brood stock. It depends on the rabbit how their treated. Some are jumpy, and don't like people. Therefore, they stay in the livestock mentality. They still get their time out, but not nearly as involved with me as the "pets" are.

And then there's the sell animals, usually babies I raised. I try to keep myself has distant as possible, so my attachness issues don't get in the way. I don't know how to describe that mentality. It's hard to keep up, but I try my best.


8D I looooove this little doe. She doesn't even care that I'm moving, and typing, and sneezing. She's just sleeping.

 

[CoolWaterRabbitry]

Shaded Night Rabbitry wrote:

X3

This topic came from an odd place for me. My first homebred girl is now finally due with her first litter. Now for the first 8 weeks of her life, I treated her as a pet. Lovey dovey, with tons of play time. Once she started showing, she became a show rabbit. I only brought her out for posing, grooming, and each rabbits hour of outside time every few days.

After a few months, she just sorta found her way to the bottom, furthest cage. I didn't exactly forget about her, but she wasn't foremost in my mind. Last month, after her last show, we decided to breed her. Now she's on day 27.

So I brought her upstairs, like the old times. Left her cage door open. She immediately came to the bed, jumped up, and sniffed around me. I grabbed her, set her on my chest, and she automatically went to sleep... Which is where she still is, an hour later. 8D

Which got me thinking about how I treat each rabbit. I have some, mainly my show crew, that's treated like pets. They get much more one on one time.

Then there's my brood stock. It depends on the rabbit how their treated. Some are jumpy, and don't like people. Therefore, they stay in the livestock mentality. They still get their time out, but not nearly as involved with me as the "pets" are.

And then there's the sell animals, usually babies I raised. I try to keep myself has distant as possible, so my attachness issues don't get in the way. I don't know how to describe that mentality. It's hard to keep up, but I try my best.


8D I looooove this little doe. She doesn't even care that I'm moving, and typing, and sneezing. She's just sleeping.

That's like my Lera, she we bought her at 8 weeks of age for showing and breeding. She cam from a breeder's farm, really nice place; but it's showing/breeding. No one-on-one time or outside time for the buns.

It took Lera a good month or so to be comfortable with us and now she is the sweetest rabbit we own. I can't wait to show her next month and breed her, but she really does cling and is quite bonded to me, as I am to her.

Now, we bought Lera's mother and her half sister, and they are the same way, both Sr. does, but horribly unsocialized. With a little work and plenty of playpen time, we're hoping that they both come around. But we want all of our rabbits to love where they're at and love/understand us before they are thrown intothe fast pace lifeof showing or breeding.

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

I have to say both, and RabbitOwner's post was really explainable.

I love my rabbits to death, and I consider them both livestock and pets. When they are in my barn, it's like they are just pets, but when it comes down to breeding, showing, sales, etc. then that's when they are like livestock, although their best interests are always at heart, no matter if I consider them livestock or not, and I think that's what draws the fine line between the two.

They should always be cared for properly, treated for illness, etc., handled as needed, and that's where the line is, because they are treated the same regardless of their status.

Emily

 

[lelanatty]

I view all of my animals as both livestock and pets. Except one.

If I were to view all of them as livestock, the emotion would be pretty much gone from what I do. I almost feel like if I viewed my animals as livestock then I would only be breeding them to win, and that's all that would matter. The emotion and actual connections with the rabbits that comes from treating them like pets sometimes is crucial to actually wanting to keep doing this because let's face it- it's not for the money.

In the middle between livestock and pets, there is toenail clipping. One of my biggest pet peeves at shows is to see rabbits that look like they haven't had their toenails clipped in a few months - or longer. This comes naturally to pet owners of course. And that is one of the more "pet" things that I do with my rabbits, I guess, even though all livestockpeople still have the responsibility to ensure their animals' comfort.

If I viewed them all as pets, I don't think I would even bother showing them. Especially where I am now, it's been four years and I still have yet to get past BOG with one of my rabbits.I am very careful with my pet babies though. Every one that gets "adopted" as a pet has an adoption contract and I baby them as much as possible so that they are sweet and used to being handled when they go to their new homes. My show prospects are a bit different though. They get trained that they will be pet only if they are posing. They still get as much love and probably more attention because I am always so excited for them, but with the one condition that they work for it.

 

[Sabine]

This is a topic I am constantly struggling with. I have 8 strictly pet rabbits (neutered/spayed). I am treating the first generation of my breeding rabbits as future pets that I would never sell on and I find myself getting quite attached to my first generation offspring too. My brood rabbits are supposedly livestock but are not really treated all that different from the pets

 

[TinysMom]

This is an area I struggle with and I think that this topic has helped me.

Many of my animals are treated like pets - being they get run time outside the cage - they get toys and treats and stuff. Actually - all of my animals get treated that way.

But some of them I have a stronger attachment to. For instance - I'm closer to the flemish giants than any of my other rabbits. For my hollands - I'm closest to Cindy and Finnster than I am Sher, Sassy & Zuba (although I love them also).

There are some animals that when I lose them - I feel badly about it - but I am not devastated. I am sad...yes.

Then there are other animals that I am so emotionally attached to - that the loss just rips me apart. It makes me wonder why I breed rabbits - why I keep rabbits - and if it is a sudden death that I had no way of forseeing - it makes me doubt my abilities to take care of rabbits - even though I know I do try my best.

However - I can say that I will never see my animals as livestock to the point that I could put them down because they are the wrong color, pattern, etc. That's just not who I am and while I know that means I'll never make it to the top of the show rounds...I'm ok with that.

 

[RAL Rabbitry]

My rabbits are well cared for, and happy. I spend countless hours cleaning cages, handling the babies, feeding and watering them and making sure they are healthy and happy. I have my pets in the herd that will never go anywhere. I do consider most of the herd livestock though I could never eat one. I don't have a problem with other breeders that do it's just a personal preference for me.

Roger

 

[Blaze_Amita]

Both here. I have a few that I don't consider Livestock, but that's because they're in training for therapy work, on top of training for show.
BUt yes, i consider them both pets and livestock for the same above mentioned reasons, with my expections to Leah and Sophie

 

[Shaded Night Rabbitry]

RAL Rabbitry wrote:

My rabbits are well cared for, and happy. I spend countless hours cleaning cages, handling the babies, feeding and watering them and making sure they are healthy and happy. I have my pets in the herd that will never go anywhere. I do consider most of the herd livestock though I could never eat one. I don't have a problem with other breeders that do it's just a personal preference for me.

Roger

Very well described. That's how I feel about my herd.
All of them are /treated/ as such, but I try to keep the mental bonds a little further away.

And just the same. Most of my herd I view as /show and brood/ (not meat) livestock. There are two or three buns I do consider to be pets above all else. One of them may be my best show buck, and one may be my best brood doe, but I will be devestated when I lose them. And they will NEVER be sold. Even if the doe stops producing, and even if the buck ages horribly. They'll be allowed to live out old age here. 8D

 

[lelanatty]

TinysMom wrote:

However - I can say that I will never see my animals as livestock to the point that I could put them down because they are the wrong color, pattern, etc. That's just not who I am and while I know that means I'll never make it to the top of the show rounds...I'm ok with that.

:yeahthat:I completely agree with this. However I still hope to make to the top of the shows. Hopefully I will eventually not have to sell any of my rabbits as pets because they will be good enough that they can all go as brood or show stock (of course aside from the ones that have DQ's and such). I'm very far from that, right now, but i'm still young and i've got time. :biggrin:

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

I am surprised by the negative connotation that the term "livestock" brings on! Livestock, as defined by Merrium-Webster, are animals kept or raised for use or pleasure.

Therefore, livestock is not necessarily something you kill or eat. Think about horses, for example. Many of us may own horses for personal use- whether that is labor or just pleasure riding. So, horses are considered livestock. But it is not common practice to euthanize them based on color or eat them. Livestock is not a negative term, it just refers to animals that are "useful" to us.

Therefore, I consider rabbits to be livestock. Rabbits were originally domesticated so that we could use them as a source of fresh and healthy meat. Today, they are still mainly used for that or breeding and exhibition. So rabbits are raised for BOTH use and pleasure. Livestock.

Livestock, in no way, implies your general care practices, breeding practices, or overall feelings for your animals. It only implies that the animals are raised for a purpose.

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

OakRidgeRabbits wrote:

I am surprised by the negative connotation that the term "livestock" brings on! Livestock, as defined by Merrium-Webster, are animals kept or raised for use or pleasure.

Therefore, livestock is not necessarily something you kill or eat. Think about horses, for example. Many of us may own horses for personal use- whether that is labor or just pleasure riding. So, horses are considered livestock. But it is not common practice to euthanize them based on color or eat them. Livestock is not a negative term, it just refers to animals that are "useful" to us.

Therefore, I consider rabbits to be livestock. Rabbits were originally domesticated so that we could use them as a source of fresh and healthy meat. Today, they are still mainly used for that or breeding and exhibition. So rabbits are raised for BOTH use and pleasure. Livestock.

Livestock, in no way, implies your general care practices, breeding practices, or overall feelings for your animals. It only implies that the animals are raised for a purpose.

That is the way I view mine too. They are combination of livestock and pets. the trick is learning where to draw the line between what is livestock and what is a pet. Some of my livestock rabbits I have a hard time letting go of. Sometimes you have to do that when running a small barn. The pet rabbits will never leave the barn though.

 

[woahlookitsme]

A'll of my animals have a use so I guess they would be considered Livestock. My brit was more of a future lap rabbit at shows and he stays inside only with me at school, but he still gets posed once a week and is carried to shows to usually always win a bob.

My past tans were babied to the point that they wouldn't run on the table, that is the reason they don't get the extra time. You want them to be sort of crazy so they will run across the table and steal everyone's heart. They do come inside every once in awhile to get their excercise and are practiced on the table every week to make sure they are at their best. Although they always get treats and toys

So i would say a mixture but mostly livestock

 

[Icarus]

Mine are Livestock but are treated as pets

 

[akane]

Livestock...I think things that are being eaten. lol Like the sheep, pigs, cows, chickens... I don't eat my rabbits, so I view all 30 of them as pets.

People don't eat horses yet they are still considered livestock. A few have argued to get them officially recognized as pets and under the same laws for care and handling but that also means someone who is zoned residential could own one. It gets too complicated so it will probably never happen but as of right now it is nearly illegal to eat horse meat in the US. The public managed to get all horse slaughter plants closed. On the opposite side people eat chicken and still frequently see their chicken flock as pets.

For me generally my first generation are pets just because they are the first ones I've had, I have fewer when starting out, and they are around the longest. Offspring are not pets for all the opposite reasons especially since most are sold (or slaughtered) within a relatively short time period. The few I select to keep my breeding program going will usually end up as pets but it depends how many animals I have to care for, individual personalities, and if they are kept inside or not.

 

[Sabine]

If I kept animals as livestock I feel they should have some use like generate income from sales or provide food, clothing etc... In that case I would not spent more on the animal than I get out of it. It would be ludicrous if your livelihood depended on it.

In that sense all my rabbits are pets, as keeping them is a luxury that swallows up quite a lot of my income. I would love to be able to generate income by breeding rabbits but that would never work out.
For example I would have to stop vaccinating them against myxo and just take the chance as the vaccination is often more than the price of a new rabbit. If they were livestock that would hardly be economical.

 

[CiaraPatricia]

I only have a few rabbits but would love to have quite a few breeding rabbits. But for me, I would always see them as pets, and couldn't sell on an adult one that I no longer wanted to breed. I would neuter it and keep it

That's just me though, I have nothing against people that see them as livestock as long as they are well cared for.

For me, if they were no longer my pets then I wouldn't see any point in breeding them just as a hobby.