bonding trio help

[porkchop]

Hi all,

I wanted to make this post and ask for any advice. I am not necessarily a rabbit newbie and have successfully bonded a trio before. But to be honest all my bonds have fortunately been very easy.
Sadly, my eldest bunny passed a few months ago. Because the other two were a trio before, I brought in a new bunny and have been trying to bond him into my current duo. For reference, they are all young (3 is the eldest) and neutered: P (male) / B (female) / M (male). P and B are my duo, M is the new one. I put initials so I didn't have to type their names constantly lol.

I started out with my new one, M, behind a gate so the other two can smell him. P, who has always been a timid little bunny, was very much not a fan and would growl and lunge at the gate. My girl seems neutral to curious about the new guy. After 4 weeks of smelling one another through the gate, switching their areas and toys, and letting them out in my apartment for exercise separately, I attempted their first date in my kitchen. This went decent with some chasing that was stopped, ignoring each other, then returned to their separate areas. The second date I did in my bathroom which is smaller. This was a disaster - P attacked M quite viciously resulting in an ear bite that required a vet visit for P and I also got bit (this is my fault for not wearing gloves). I want to emphasize this happened pretty quickly too.

I now have them separated completely. When I let them see one another through the gate yesterday, P chattered nervously and then tried to bite the gate some. He is also mounting my girl excessively and while she doesn't seem to have any behavioral changes, that can't really be fun for her. I am going to do the gate thing for another maybe 2-4 weeks probably and then start over in the kitchen again. I am unsure if I should try stress bonding; is that a preferred method for two that dislike one another? I had done the tub method with my trio before and it worked very well, but other than a chase and nip there was never any major fighting. I am not even going to try the bathroom again though because they'll probably remember what happened there, I would probably do a car ride.

Has anyone bonded a difficult trio before? What are the major signs I need to look out for to give up on bonding? I think M is quite social and if it doesn't work, he would be better off with friends so I would have to look into finding him a new home which would suck. My vet told me sometimes it just won't work, but I have read so many stories of people successfully bonding rabbits that seemed to hate one another initially. So I want to make sure I have really given this effort before I would have to do that, it's just I've never experienced it before.

Thanks for any help.

 

[JBun]

Because they had a full on fight, you really need to do a 'reset'. This is complete separation, to the point where you will probably need to do no visual contact at all for several weeks or longer. You may even need to remove to a separate room if hearing the other rabbit(s) is causing stress and/or aggression. This is to give all buns a chance to relax and not stress, and essentially forget each other and the fight that occurred. Then start the bonding fresh from the beginning, but maybe slightly different tactics, and avoiding situations and techniques that didn't work or caused problems the last time.

Trios are difficult and there are a lot of potential issues with attempting them, more than pairs or groups. You risk breaking up a current pair, causing referred aggression when trying to add a third bun in, particularly when it's a second male bun and there's one female. You risk two of the rabbits separating themselves off and leaving out the other bun once bonded. This can lead to stress for that bun and the bond eventually failing. And the biggest risk aside from fights and injuries occurring, is the potential to end up with three single buns that won't bond.

Unless all 3 rabbits show a natural inclination to liking and accepting each other with a relatively easy bonding process, attempting a trio isn't something I would recommend otherwise. To me it's not worth the stress anymore, of trying to make a difficult bond work out. But you may feel brave enough to take the challenge on.

If you still want to attempt it, I would recommend the complete separation with no visual (and possibly auditory) contact for at least 4 weeks. Then try again, but possibly a different strategy. If a larger bonding space worked better, maybe stick with that. You will likely need to proceed very slowly and cautiously. You may even need to separate the current pair temporarily, and first attempt to bond the two rabbits having issues, before trying to add in the least troublesome bun. But keep in mind and be prepared, that this could potentially be a very difficult and months long process, and may ultimately not work out.

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Bonding_rabbits_together
https://rabbitsindoors.weebly.com/bonding-bunnies.html
https://cottontails-rescue.org.uk/information/bonding-bunnies/

 

[porkchop]

Because they had a full on fight, you really need to do a 'reset'. This is complete separation, to the point where you will probably need to do no visual contact at all for several weeks or longer. You may even need to remove to a separate room if hearing the other rabbit(s) is causing stress and/or aggression. This is to give all buns a chance to relax and not stress, and essentially forget each other and the fight that occurred. Then start the bonding fresh from the beginning, but maybe slightly different tactics, and avoiding situations and techniques that didn't work or caused problems the last time.

Trios are difficult and there are a lot of potential issues with attempting them, more than pairs or groups. You risk breaking up a current pair, causing referred aggression when trying to add a third bun in, particularly when it's a second male bun and there's one female. You risk two of the rabbits separating themselves off and leaving out the other bun once bonded. This can lead to stress for that bun and the bond eventually failing. And the biggest risk aside from fights and injuries occurring, is the potential to end up with three single buns that won't bond.

Unless all 3 rabbits show a natural inclination to liking and accepting each other with a relatively easy bonding process, attempting a trio isn't something I would recommend otherwise. To me it's not worth the stress anymore, of trying to make a difficult bond work out. But you may feel brave enough to take the challenge on.

If you still want to attempt it, I would recommend the complete separation with no visual (and possibly auditory) contact for at least 4 weeks. Then try again, but possibly a different strategy. If a larger bonding space worked better, maybe stick with that. You will likely need to proceed very slowly and cautiously. You may even need to separate the current pair temporarily, and first attempt to bond the two rabbits having issues, before trying to add in the least troublesome bun. But keep in mind and be prepared, that this could potentially be a very difficult and months long process, and may ultimately not work out.

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Bonding_rabbits_together
https://rabbitsindoors.weebly.com/bonding-bunnies.html
https://cottontails-rescue.org.uk/information/bonding-bunnies/

Thank you for this informative reply.

This has just been such a surprise to me because my duo has always been quite submissive to the one I had lost - M even has a similar personality to him so I thought this would be fairly easy. I suppose I had assumed they were submissive by nature but I guess it was it was just that, an assumption. I will most likely attempt another bond in a month, given that there was a shred of hope in that initial date that they can coexist normally.

Should I still let them out separately for exercise? I have a 2 bedroom apartment and each gets their own room with a closed door. I have been letting them out to roam the living room at intervals since it's the biggest area.

 

[JBun]

I would give it a few days or even a week or two. You want the bonded pair completely settled back down and happy again. Then give the living room a good clean with vinegar/water or other rabbit safe descenting cleaner, before trying the bonded pair in there, if your single buns scent is in that room. You just don't want the smell of the other bun setting your boy bun off.

I wouldn't let your single bun in there for now. You want the pair to forget about him, so you don't want to risk his scent being remembered and causing issues with the pair. You may even find you need to have fresh clothes on after being with the single bun. Any scent from him being on you, could potentially set your other bun off. So it's just something to be aware of and adapt to if you find it necessary, based on your buns reactions.

Though you can switch it up, where you let the single bun in there instead, and that actually might be better since he'll be alone and needing company. And you can probably do that right away without needing to wait at all. If he wasn't as reactive, you may not even need to descent or clean off anything. Just depends on how he reacts to being in there. If he's nervous or reactive, you might need to.

 

[porkchop]

I would give it a few days or even a week or two. You want the bonded pair completely settled back down and happy again. Then give the living room a good clean with vinegar/water or other rabbit safe descenting cleaner, before trying the bonded pair in there, if your single buns scent is in that room. You just don't want the smell of the other bun setting your boy bun off.

I wouldn't let your single bun in there for now. You want the pair to forget about him, so you don't want to risk his scent being remembered and causing issues with the pair. You may even find you need to have fresh clothes on after being with the single bun. Any scent from him being on you, could potentially set your other bun off. So it's just something to be aware of and adapt to if you find it necessary, based on your buns reactions.

Though you can switch it up, where you let the single bun in there instead, and that actually might be better since he'll be alone and needing company. And you can probably do that right away without needing to wait at all. If he wasn't as reactive, you may not even need to descent or clean off anything. Just depends on how he reacts to being in there. If he's nervous or reactive, you might need to.

I figured I would reply and say I was able to successfully bond all my bunnies.

I did a car ride with the two that didn't get along for about 2-3 weeks. After the car ride, they were set up in a neutral area (the apartment above me, so no smells/nothing of other bunnies) for about an hour to hang out. This neutral area was a medium sized room, so they were able to interact whenever they felt like it. There were positive signs in these weeks and diminished aggressive behavior.

Then I had to move to a completely new area. They were separated with a divider for a couple days in the same room and I saw that they were lying next to each other through the gate, sniffing, grooming, nothing aggressive. Removed the divider and they all just go along. Was very surprised. Has been about 2 weeks, no fighting, nothing. Though after this, yeah, I would agree trio bonding is really difficult. While I like having three, will definitely heavily consider personality types if I try it again.

 

[Blue eyes]

Glad to hear! But please don't let down your guard. Two weeks isn't very long. I attempted a trio in the past and things seemed to be going well for 3 weeks. It was at week 4 when it all fell apart. Not saying that will happen with yours, just suggesting caution.

 

[porkchop]

Glad to hear! But please don't let down your guard. Two weeks isn't very long. I attempted a trio in the past and things seemed to be going well for 3 weeks. It was at week 4 when it all fell apart. Not saying that will happen with yours, just suggesting caution.

Thank you! I have been keeping an eye but needed the reminder regardless.