bonding overboard?

[jessmc03]

Hi everybody,

I recently got a second bunny (Lucas) to bond with my first (Gabby). Everything went as smoothly asI could imagine and now, a month out, they are happily sharing a cage together. The problemI am seeing is that gabby is over grooming Lucas. She is leaving bald spots on him. He doesn't seem to be in any pain, he lets me look at the spots and touch them. He hasn't nipped at her or reacted to her licking him negativly in anyway. Gabby isn't breaking the skin either, she is just licking him constantly.

I am really concerned for lucas. Any suggestions?

thanks so much

Jess & Lucas

 

[Flashy]

Where are the spots?

It is very possible there is a reason for this and the most obvious is a potential health issue.

Can you post pictures?

 

[jessmc03]

There is a spot isbetween his eye and his ear on either side (he is a netherland dwarf). They are both slightly smaller then the size of a dime. i am going to try to get pictures to post.

~Jess

 

[jessmc03]

ok here is a picture of lucas. he has one on either side.

 

[Flashy]

Has he ever had any dental problems or eye problems?

It might be he had a small scratch or something there and she is a nurse bunny. I would be inclined to separate them but keep them next to each other until the fur starts to grow back to avoid her making his skin sore and making the problem worse.

 

[Saudade]

I've seen this recently on Harry's Practice! A vet sorta program we have in Australia!

It looks like Gabby has developed a form of OCD, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, rabbits just like people develop habit forming actions, some of these are good and some of them are bad. With your girl Gabby she's developed a grooming compulsion. This means that she will obsessively lick the same spot on Lucas, we tend to find that these compulsions are usually on a queue, whether it is from you handling Lucas or feeding time, all the way to just the sound of running water, any of this can be a trigger to set her off.

However! There is no reason to fear! These behaviours are easily fixed, our first order of business is to identify the trigger, whenever you see Gabby begin to lick these spots stop and take notice of what has just happened in the general area. If you've just been handling Lucas write this down, the same goes for everything.

Once we've identified the trigger action (or even beforehand) we need to give some relief to the bald patches on Lucas by getting some hair growing back, your vet will be the best person to contact about this, they have a wide range of noxious tasting chemicals, that when your Gabby licks the spot will taste like she's just run her tongue through something akin to sewerage. These are all non toxic but they will definitely act as a deterrent to Gabby's obsessive actions.

By applying these chemicals to the bald patches you will have taken the first step in breaking the habit that has been formed between the two. She will switch her licking around to other parts of the body and hopefully it will return to a normal grooming action. Once you've identified her trigger you can reinforce this by distracting her whenever the trigger appears, giving her attention and breaking this repetitive habit.

I wouldn't be worried about dental problems or scratches, this seems like a common case of bad habits in good rabbits!
If you follow these steps you'll be able to cure her of this disorder.

 

[Flashy]

^I have seen far too many times and also heard far too many times of overgrooming indicating a medical problem in the overgroomed area (be it a kidney infection, eye infection, a wound, vaccination reaction and more) so it IS something to be aware of and shouldn't be dismissed just because you have a different theory.

Yes, all theories are important to share but yu shouldn't just rule something out randomly, there should be proof that it is something that should be ruled out before being ruled out.

 

[hok9]

I agree it might be a health problem, yet one of mine does the same thing. His personality is like that though and he is very active, so when he is in his cage for a long time he cleans all the other bunnies a little too much.

 

[Saudade]

But an automatic assumption that is something bad? When it is the bun overgrooming itself then I would be more worried, however since it is another bun overgrooming the area I'd be much more inclined to choose a less dramatic assumption especially when there are no other symptoms.
Occams razor dictates “Of several acceptable explanations for a phenomenon, the simplest is preferable, provided that it takes all circumstances into account.”

 

[Flashy]

hok9 wrote:

I agree it might be a health problem, yet one of mine does the same thing. His personality is like that though and he is very active, so when he is in his cage for a long time he cleans all the other bunnies a little too much.

Idefinitely agree with youthat with some buns there is a behavioural element to it With yours you have clearly figured out what caused it and why (and hopefully how to beat it, lol), when it's a new problem all ideas should be tossed around. Chances are it could be behavioural like yours. You might have to share your secrets to success

 

[Flashy]

Saudade wrote:

But an automatic assumption that is something bad? When it is the bun overgrooming itself then I would be more worried, however since it is another bun overgrooming the area I'd be much more inclined to choose a less dramatic assumption especially when there are no other symptoms.
Occams razor dictates “Of several acceptable explanations for a phenomenon, the simplest is preferable, provided that it takes all circumstances into account.”

True, I didn't mention the behavioural side, which is a possibility, but equally, I didn't dismiss it whereas you completely did dismiss an idea when actually neither of us have any idea what is causing this. If you ruled out the medical side and it actually turned out to be medical then you would have put that bun at risk by making an assessment based on nothing related to this bun, just something you saw on TV.

Better to cover all eventualities and also always cover ourselves

It's a shame that Randy is not around to talk about nurse bunnies because he is someone I learnt a lot from when mine were over grooming ridiculously and he has a lot of extensive experience with it.

 

[Saudade]

I didn't just take this from knowledge n the T.V. and I'm sorry if I made it seem like that was the extent of my knowledge, I merely took the knowledge of how to treat it using these chemicals, I dismissed a straight diagnosis of it being something hidden as there are no symptoms being shown. I have witnessed these obsessive rabbits and have seen how common obsessive lickers are. Since these are recently bonded rabbits it is the simplest and the most obvious answer.


*edit*

I'd like to also point out that my diagnosis left open for further diagnosis IF any other symptoms showed up.

 

[hok9]

I definitely agree with you that with some buns there is a behavioural element to it With yours you have clearly figured out what caused it and why (and hopefully how to beat it, lol), when it's a new problem all ideas should be tossed around. Chances are it could be behavioural like yours. You might have to share your secrets to success

It was just watching him. When two are grooming one in the same spot thats when i get curious. If just the crazy one, he will usually clean them sporatically all over.

In this case i would think medical though as i have seen that when i got my third and he had runny eyes and had no fur around his eyes within a matter of days.

 

[Flashy]

Ok Saudade. I would just be aware that rabbits know things before us. I know of a rabbit that started to chew and overgroom her boyfriends sides, and there was no evidence of anything wrong. the owner dismissed it as behavioural and then was pretty demoralised to find out that actually the boyfriend had a kidney infection and the girlie bun had known before the person.

I'm notconfident enough to rule out or definitely say it is either problem. Icouldn't and wouldn't ever say definitivelyit is a medical problem, and I think looking into a behavioural problem is definitely worthwhile (personally though, I think that is the more complex issue and harder to beat), but that's just probably me.

At the end of the day, if jessmc chooses to dismiss all possibilities but yours that's cool, all I can do is put my ideas across. It may help someone else, even if it doesn't help her.

I just hope buns are ok and that the problem, whatever it is, can be sorted

 

[Saudade]

I didn't say ignore all other possibilities, however I pointed out that assuming it is a medical condition without other symptoms is not logical. Obsessive rabbits are very very common, they're perhaps the most neurotic creatures known to man.

 

[Flashy]

No, I know and I very carefully never said you did, just said that if jessmc chooses to do that, that's ok

You did say

Saudade wrote:

If you follow these steps you'll be able to cure her of this disorder.

Which presumes that is what is wrong with her, that's allI was focusing on.

I think the rest of your post is very valid and holdssome good information (although I do have concerns about 'chemicals' but that's probably just me).

I'm just annoying, what can I say

 

[Flashy]

Also, I've never come across an obsessive rabbit. Seems like I've been lucky

 

[Saudade]

They're all organic, there's nothing wrong with them, but I would not drink an entire bottle in one sitting I'm just saying.

 

[Saudade]

I've seen them heaps, not many of the buns that you would of encountered would of been in the position to show it. Lucy is on the edge of being an obsessive licker but she does have a small amount of control.

 

[Flashy]

Saudade wrote:

I've seen them heaps, not many of the buns that you would of encountered would of been in the position to show it.

In what sense?