Anyone keep marine tanks? Help!

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Laura the Bunsnuggler
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I know it's a long shot, but if there are any marine fish/invertebrate enthusiasts here, we could really really use some help! We're new to this, just set up a brand new saltwater tank (no fishes or live coral yet), and today hubs went and got some live rock to boost bacteria levels. We later discovered that there was a tiny wee orange starfish on the rock! It's extremely small, only a few mm across. I've taken the liberty of naming it Filius.

Filius is alive and stealthily moving around. He's currently scoping out a piece of plastic we wedged in to keep the rock down. I'll get a pic during the day tomorrow when the light's better, so maybe we can get an ID on the breed.

But we have absolutely no idea how to care for our five-armed little guy! I would hate for him to die!! Our tank water isn't fully cycled yet, ammonia levels are still pretty high. And then there's the issue of food.

If anyone has ANY advice, or can point me to an active marine tank forum, anything really, Filius and I would be very grateful. :eek:
 
You were right! Filius seems to be doing fine, even growing a little I believe. He has two even smaller bros, Wally and Wally Jr. We even spotted what we think is a coral polyp.

Hubs went and got a clownfish today. I'm letting him name it, since I dominate the naming-animals arena in our house. But he hasn't thought of a name yet. Meanwhile I secretly call the fish Huckleberry.
 
Oh please let your tank cycle much longer. Did it complete its first nitrogen cycle yet? That takes over a month. Then a clean up crew is to be added. And again another month long wait. This is not a hobby to do things quickly in.
What type of filtration and flow do you have? Lighting?

Marine fish systems are very delicate. Fish should be the last things added.
Ive seen many fish and tanks suffer because people started adding stuff too early.
 
We've had the tank for about a month now, hubby used StartSmart bacteria boost to speed up the cycle. We've got a small-ish JAD tank with inbuilt lighting, filtration and current flow. I'm not really clear on the details though, it's his tank, he's the fish person and I'm the bunny person.

Clean-up crew? We might have skipped that step, or would that be Fiilius & co? Hubs bought the fish on the store guy's advice, he said that the bacteria in the live rock needs fish waste to survive or it would die off and we'll have to start the cycle over again. The tank's nitrate level, 0.25, is apparently the perfect time to put livestock in.
 
A lot of local fish stores give really bad advice.... Even the good ones give bad advice sometimes its frustrating but a sale is a sale and if your fish dies youre bound to be back to buy another.

Thats what the clean up crew is for.... They start to eat algaes (which will grow once the cycle is complete) then poop! And help establish a stronger natural bacteria colony in the rock.
So snails and hermits. I used just snails in mine. Astrea, cerith, nassasirius (uhhh nope cant spell) then got some cowries a little later. Also have a large selection of bristle worms, pods, and brittle stars that came in on the live rock.

There is typicall lots of die off when you put the live rock in initally so that kick starts the cycle.
Sometimes feeding the tank every so often to feed the natural hitch hikers and supply more ammonia to the tank is benificial. Before the cuc (clean up crew) is introduced.

No supplement or additive is as good as waiting patiently.

Each step slowly builds up the bacteria colony so the tank can handle the bio load of fish.

I dont know about those all in 1 setups but the ones we have here usually end up with serious upgrades. Do you have a skimmer?
 
A protein skimmer? Yes the tank has one. I've no doubt hubby will spring for upgrades when we put anemones and coral in, he's already talking about getting new lights.

Do you reckon we should put in a few snails then? The tank water is a sorta green, we've been wondering about that, is that algae in the water?
 
Yeah. And a bacteria bloom of the bad kind. Not really a good thing.
Water should always be crystal clear if its not then something is off.
Add a few snails. How many gallons is the tank? Dont want too many.
Im sure you lucky ducks down there have so much more to choose from!

Id skip on getting any crabs. They usually just cause problems lol if their good for the tank then they kill your snails for the shells. Otherwise they eat your coral and fish. Go figure.
Are you using a refractometer or hydeometer to measure tank salinity/specific gravity?
Ive gone LED for my tank lights best decision ever.
Hopefully nemo hangs in there. Their sturdy fish for sure but still super delicate. It can take a good 6mts-1yr for a tank to stabalize properly where you can add more delicate fish coral and anemones.

Ivr managed to crash my tank twice. First time mixed a bad batch of salt and filled the tank too full so there was no surface agitation. killed everyone but all the coral survive. 2nd time i introduced either marine velvet or ick on some new fish. Killed all but 2 fish. Its sad when you flush more then 100-200$ worth of fish at a time.
But 2 years later im at a point where i can sell coral frags from the tank to pay for its upkeep. So its almost fullu self sufficient now! Well worth it.
 
Oh dear, I'm worried for little Huckles now. :( :(

We use a hydrometer for tank salinity. The tank is 120 litres, so about 34 gallons. How many snails should we get, and does the type of snail matter? I recall seeing some in the pet store we went to, but I can't for the life of me recall what type they were.
 
Invest in a refractometer as soon as you can. Hydrometers are quite inaccurate and can be off by as much or as little as 5-10 points at times (sometimes more sometimes less), and even 1 or 2 points can be detrimental to a system. It may show 1.025 but in reality be 1.015 or 1.035. Or again less. but you do get what you pay for with this tool.

I know thousands of people look to LiveAquaria to do a quick research of a fish prior to purchase. Yes they do sell fish in the US, but they have a good bio for each specimen.
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/aquarium-fish-supplies.cfm?c=497+526
So check out the page for each snail and find some that do different jobs. Some like to stick to the rock, some prefer glass. Some eat detritus, other slime algae, others other type of algaes. They all have different jobs which is why it's important to get a variety. But be cautious some like to leave the tank and go for walk abouts. Some prefer colder ttemps and perish in our standard marine tank. some are quite large and knock stuff over all the time! I have 3 strawberry top hat snails that LOVE to knock all my un-glued corals over.
1. I currently have 3 Strawberry top hats. Their larger more pain in the butt snails, stick to glass and rock, do a similar job of the astreas, just prettier.
2. A bunch of Astreas (same as starry or pointy astreas) most people don't like these snails as they cant flip themselves over due to their small foot. I find these guys pretty hearty and one or 2 may fall off here or there, well then they weren't strong snails to begin with, and the circle of life takes place. They tend to stick to the glass, but I do find them on the rocks frequently enough. They prefer more turf algae and that film that builds on your glass initially.
3. A bunch of Ceriths (again many varieties) these guys chill out more on the rock. For some reason I cant keep these guys alive anymore. They like Diatoms, detritus.
4. I have 1 single Cowrie from 2 I introduced initially in my smaller tank over 2 years ago. These guys are just really pretty. I might see him once every 2 months or so, its like HEY hes still alive! Not sure what type he is, obviously a smaller species as hes only an inch and hasn't gotten any bigger. Really cool snail though. Stays hidden in the rock.
5. I have a dozen or 2 TONGA Nassarius snails. They live in the sand, eat detritus, and well their really cool looking. All you usually see is little sticks poking up from the sand, then you feed your tank, and its like an army of zombies rise from the dead! They make short work of ANY leftover fish food, dead fish, etc. So their quite useful. Mine have bred in tank and I have 3 or 4 little 4mm large ones trolling about. They generally come in just "Nassarius" and "Tonga Nassarius" The Tonga ones are twice the size, so about an inch or 2 depending how you measure.
That's whats in my tank.
I have tried Trochus because people claim they have a longer foot so can flip themselves over. But these things were ALWAYS upside down and could never manage to right themselves! Uggh, all ended up dying in a few days, stupid snails... useless....

These snails just don't reproduce and cause issues like in fresh water. Somebody makes a short meal of eggs very quickly.

Personally... Id try some Astreas, ceriths, and maybe 3 Nassarius. Start with 3 of each maybe?
A lot of other snails available just wouldn't have worked in my system due to temps or I didn't want some snail that could potentially be mean, or run out of my tank!
Your system can handle more but too many all at once will shock the system.

Its hard to say what other awesome snails you have available where you live. CITES to export fish/inverts/corals out of NZ/Australia is a pain in the butt at the best of times. But you guys have an epic natural selection so stores will have some great stuff.
 
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Wow, thanks! Your tank sounds awesome. I actually doubt we have that many varieties of snails here....maybe they do in Australia, but NZ's a small country and saltwater tanks aren't nearly as popular as freshwater. We'll have to do more research into it but I'll bookmark your post for reference, ehehe.

Hey I just remembered, the snails in the store were called "Turbo Snails". They were pretty big.
 
Yeah Strawberry top hat snails are about that size, just more purple/red with a pointy shell so their really pretty. But their like bulldozers.
I had introduced a turbo the same time I bought my first strawberry, the turbo died in 2 days, the strawberry is still in my tank pushing stuff over.
Im not sure if where their from has much to do with it, but I think a lot here are from mexico, so they prefer cooler temps and die in hotter temps. No idea what variety you guys would have. But that's a really big snail to have die with no other CUC to manage its death. The Nassarius really are awesome. Everyone should have some of those.
If you have a smart phone with Data, go to the fish store and open up that link with the snail types while youre there. So youre not just taking the fish guys word for it, as their bound to sell you something inappropriate.

But IMO a refractometer is a must. Odd salinitys can cause havoc in a tank, and many inverts cant handle salinitys like that. They are just expensive. Average here is $50, I scored mine wholesale from a friend for $20. Do you have local reefer groups you could purchase used equipment from? maybe the fish dude knows.

This is what my tank started as. 30gal bowfront.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/Lolaandthecrowd/Fish%20Tank%20-%20SW/SaltwaterTankrockonly008.jpg
Ended up with this after awhile.
Still just wasn't that happy with it.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/Lolaandthecrowd/Fish Tank - SW/1August14-15-040.jpg
Ended up upgrading to a 67gal with sump last October 2012.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/Lolaandthecrowd/Fish Tank - SW/IMG_9993.jpg
This is where I introduced some new fish and killed everyone off, all I had left was my male anthias and my combtooth blenny. Those 2 are troopers!
My goldfish have the pleasure of living in the old bowfront
Upgraded my lighting shortly after I killed everyone.
And now I have something that resembles this.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/Lolaandthecrowd/20131225_124935.jpg
Many corals are still small and haven't filled in. I only have 6 fish in there, and honestly maybe I might put 1 more wrasse in there but, nope no more fish! Its cute when they all come out and hang around the left side all day.
 
Your tanks look downright stunning. LOVE the colourful coral/anemones! And blennies are SO pretty. Especially the weird yellow-purple ones! I've told hubby about the refractometer and snails, and this weekend we're going fish store hopping. I don't recall seeing any other snails than the Turbos in the stores we've been to though, so we're just gonna have to pull up the names and ask if the store guys know where to find them. Also refractometers are about $80 new here, so we are hoping to find a deal (cross fingers).

Meanwhile, our little clown is still chugging along, thankfully. Sometimes he swims in an odd slanted/sideways manner or facing straight down, and then we get scared that he's going to die, but a moment later he's flouncing about normally on the other side of the tank. He hides behind our rock formation a lot. Hubs finally named him Pluto.
 
Clowns do swim weird sometimes... Its just their thing. What usually gets people is when the male does his "submission" seizure dance to appease his female lol.
And an FYI.... Your clown will be a little Girl in no time ;)
Make sure if you purchase a 2nd clown down the line that its smaller then your current one and comes from a group setting (and isn't the largest in the group) so you know you're getting a boy.
They can become fairly aggressive little brats lol.

Good luck snail hunting!

Here are my 2 clowns last year... doesn't show their weird swimming, and youd never guess there are 5 fish in that tank during the video.
Actually none of those wavey corals you see are anenomes. My big pink one is hidden at the back of the tank at the top. And I have 2 white rock flower nems on the sand on the right hand side beside the green stuff.
I did this video for somebody wanting to see how much disco effect my LED light had

[ame]http://youtu.be/BMdgp7qRwG8[/ame]
 
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Really? I'm curious, why would the first one become a girl while the second stays a boy and not the other way round? The one we've got is pretty small, and most of the pet store stock tends to be bigger (older?) clowns.

Stunning lighting, by the way. Makes the corals look amazing!
 
In clown fish, their all males until they pair off. Once their in a pair, the larger one become a female. So if you only have 1, that ends up being the larger one and will soon turn to a female.
So if you all ready have a female in your tank (your current fish) and you introduce a smaller male, it will stay a male. And you will end up with a happy pair... unless the female goes all PMS and kills him. I had one that did that... She divorced him for a week then murdered him.

Anthias are the opposite. THeir all female, the largest of the group turns into a male. If the male perishes the next largest female become the new male. And if you have just 1 it will be a male so only smaller females should be introduced (same thing as the clowns just don't buy the biggest one) except these guys are a schooling fish so either just 1 or 5. Clowns its either 2 or 1.
 
So my lone clown will automatically turn itself female while it's alone? What happens if you introduce a bigger clown then?

Here are some pictures of our little tank, btw... very bare still, but you can spot the little Nemo in there somewhere. The blurriness is from my camera lens, it's all scratched *sob*

tumblr_n091190XIU1qarrtbo1_500.jpg


tumblr_n0910lbwKP1qarrtbo1_500.jpg
 
Yes your lone clown fish will automatically turn into a female.
Well then you would have 2 females and they would probably try and kill each other ;)

You don't have any kind of powerhead in there for flow?
Is there a sump with this system? or is it just all in the back of the tank, nothing below? What is the output (gallon or litre per hour) of the pump that returns water back to the tank.
 
I see! We'd better feed up our little guy then, so he'll become a big girl! Lol. Actually that's something I've been wondering about - can fish be overfed? We read that marine fish should only be fed once every few days, so we feed Aegis Flakes currently once every second day. But the box says you can feed it up to 3 times a day. How often do you reckon we should feed our clown?

The black rod at the top of the second picture above is the jet, I don't know what the output is but it makes a pretty strong current, regularly bores dents in the sand. The entire filtration system is in the back, media, UV light, skimmer, the works. Here's how it sits:


tumblr_n09337cWBu1qarrtbo1_500.jpg


Water flows in through the grate there at the bottom of the pic, through a sponge, into the skimmer, then the media, and the UV light.

Edit; oh! haha little Plute photobombed this pic.
 
I know it's a long shot, but if there are any marine fish/invertebrate enthusiasts here, we could really really use some help! We're new to this, just set up a brand new saltwater tank (no fishes or live coral yet), and today hubs went and got some live rock to boost bacteria levels. We later discovered that there was a tiny wee orange starfish on the rock! It's extremely small, only a few mm across. I've taken the liberty of naming it Filius.

Filius is alive and stealthily moving around. He's currently scoping out a piece of plastic we wedged in to keep the rock down. I'll get a pic during the day tomorrow when the light's better, so maybe we can get an ID on the breed.

But we have absolutely no idea how to care for our five-armed little guy! I would hate for him to die!! Our tank water isn't fully cycled yet, ammonia levels are still pretty high. And then there's the issue of food.

If anyone has ANY advice, or can point me to an active marine tank forum, anything really, Filius and I would be very grateful. :eek:

No advise, I do freshwater and Bettas tanks, but boy do I envy you! I wish I had the nads to try a saltwater tank. Congrats on your little guy.
 

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