advice on breeding my rabbit...

[beckz]

hi...i have 2 giant french lop rabbits, male and female, (eric and jezabelle)...they are both 9mths old...i wanted to breed them as ive always wanted to be a breeder...i had done research before so i knew what to do and i had lots of advice...now, my rabbit had her first litter and sadly it didnt go very well, i found she had her babys but were all over the hutch dead...they were all in 1 piece thankfully...now she has recently had another litter, this seemed to be going well, or so i thought!...1 morning i was out there cleaning her hutch out and found she had given birth to 6 babys...all were fine, wobbling about everywhere, and in the nest she had made themthey was all huddled together...you could feel the warmthcoming fromthem, so i knew that things were ok there...i only went near mum just to feed and give fresh water and to chuck in more hay for the babys...i didnt want to interfere to much as she is a stroppy madam and when i would check on them she kept fussing by coming in and seeing what i was doing and giving the occasion stamping of the foot...

Now the babys were only 2/3 days old and 1 morning i went out there 2 feed her and noticed the babys were all uncovered and had all died ...i dont know what had happened, i cant tell you if i knew mum had been feeding her as they say you never see mum feeding and when i did try and check to see if there bellys were big as if they had been fed, it was hard to as they were all snuggled together and mum got bit anxious...i knew i had to get them out before they started smelling, so i put my latex gloves on and carefully pulled the hay out of the bedroom compartment, only to my surprise i find baby number 7, where it looked like the baby had crawled away from the litter and got lost and died...then right at the back i find baby number 8 where it looked like it was still in its birthing sack...

so the question is...did mum reject them as she knew there was 2 other babys in there dead?...or that shes just going to be a bad mum?...or apparently ive heard through another forum that the giant breed mature slower than the normal size rabbit and that maybe they do have problems with handling a litter...if anybody has been through something similer please let me know as to what to do...or any ideas where it possibly went wrong...thanks :?

 

[mouse_chalk]

I'm so sorry about the babies

I moved this to the Rabbitry forum for you so that our breeder members and mods can give you advice

 

[beckz]

ok, lovely thank you.

 

[Becca]

Welcome to the forum by the way

I'm not sure how soon you an rebreed them, I hope someone will come along soon there's lots of brilliant helpful breeders on here and they will know the best for your buns; sorry about the babies

 

[beckz]

thank you... i know i was so upset when this happened as i thought they were fine...just hope someone can give me some good advice, preferably someone thats breed french lops before...as previous advice given its taking me in the wrong direction:?

 

[irishbunny]

I'm so sorry about your babies!

Did she have a nestbox to make her nest in? Also, when you tookt the dead babies out what kind of bellies did they have, nice and big or thin and wrinkly?

 

[Flashy]

Hey, I'm glad you found your way here (It's Sky-O here). I have already said what I have to say, but I hope that someone with more knwoledge on the bigger breeds, and not just general knowledge can help you a bit more with specifics.

Personally I think this was a feeding issue of some sort, i.e. lack of mum's milk, or her not knowing what to do. Although it could possibly be that because you didn't get the dead babies out, they started to rot and made the others ill, although Idon't know if that would happen that quickly.

I'm hoping you will learn a lot here

 

[beckz]

irishbunny wrote:

I'm so sorry about your babies!

Did she have a nestbox to make her nest in? Also, when you tookt the dead babies out what kind of bellies did they have, nice and big or thin and wrinkly?

she didnt have a nest box but she had built herself a nest in the bedroom department of the hutch...she pulled her fur out aswell and then when the babies came along she covered them aswell...she covered them that well, that i didnt even know she had them till i saw the hay moving about...they seemed wrinkly so this could mean cause of death being starved!?

 

[irishbunny]

If they had sunken, wrinkly bellies then it is possible they starved, usually if they have been feeding they will have nice, round bellies, almost like they swallowed a ping-pong ball.

There could be a number of different reasons as to why they starved. The mother may not have produced milk or abandoned the babies.

 

[DyemondRabbitry]

Sounds like maybe she's just taking her good sweet time figuring out the mothering idea. 9 months is plenty old enough for a French Lop to start breeding. You said there were eight babies? Also- two of them got out of the nest? It's not that unusual for them to get out of the nest though a lot of mothers will put them back in. Knowing that two of the babies had passed should not have effected the mother with the other babies- usually they will just seperate them from the rest and go on taking care of the live ones.

Sometimes moms will get testy when we handle the babies but I'm a firm believer that you HAVE to get your hands on them. The box has to be cleaned and the babies checked everyday. I will actually take the box out and count every baby to also go over it and make sure everybody is doing ok.

Don't worry about the smell. You take care of these animals everyday so they know your smell and should not worry about the babies smelling. Just pet momma when you put them back in and let her check them over (she'll usually jump right in to see her babies) and then you can leave them alone again.

You usually won't see the mom feeding her babies- they only feed once a day and they like to do it when nobody is there it seems. Sometimes you'll see the doe sitting in the box, but not on the babies, if the box is big enough.

Hope that helps some- I just think that either, unfortunately, she isn't a natural mother or she's just needing some time to figure it out.

 

[beckz]

Flashy wrote:

Hey, I'm glad you found your way here (It's Sky-O here). I have already said what I have to say, but I hope that someone with more knwoledge on the bigger breeds, and not just general knowledge can help you a bit more with specifics.

Personally I think this was a feeding issue of some sort, i.e. lack of mum's milk, or her not knowing what to do. Although it could possibly be that because you didn't get the dead babies out, they started to rot and made the others ill, although Idon't know if that would happen that quickly.

I'm hoping you will learn a lot here

hi again!...yeah thats what conclusion i am coming to now...thats what i thought when i found the dead ones that they have made the others ill and thats why they died, but there was so much hay in there where everytime i cleanedher out and gave freshhay she kept moving it into the bedroom department, so it was so hard to see in there and like ive said before i really didnt want to pull about the nest she had made through fear of her abandoning them...or that she hadnt feed them or possibly both solutions?!...hopefully ill get to the bottom of it though...this is a much better forum them the other 1!

 

[beckz]

DyemondRabbitry wrote:

Sounds like maybe she's just taking her good sweet time figuring out the mothering idea. 9 months is plenty old enough for a French Lop to start breeding. You said there were eight babies? Also- two of them got out of the nest? It's not that unusual for them to get out of the nest though a lot of mothers will put them back in. Knowing that two of the babies had passed should not have effected the mother with the other babies- usually they will just seperate them from the rest and go on taking care of the live ones.

Sometimes moms will get testy when we handle the babies but I'm a firm believer that you HAVE to get your hands on them. The box has to be cleaned and the babies checked everyday. I will actually take the box out and count every baby to also go over it and make sure everybody is doing ok.

Don't worry about the smell. You take care of these animals everyday so they know your smell and should not worry about the babies smelling. Just pet momma when you put them back in and let her check them over (she'll usually jump right in to see her babies) and then you can leave them alone again.

You usually won't see the mom feeding her babies- they only feed once a day and they like to do it when nobody is there it seems. Sometimes you'll see the doe sitting in the box, but not on the babies, if the box is big enough.

Hope that helps some- I just think that either, unfortunately, she isn't a natural mother or she's just needing some time to figure it out.

i was thinking that maybe if we decide to breed her again that we should bring her indoors this time so we can keep a better eye on her that way...what do you think?...im not doing it yet, want to give her some more time first...i always used to pet her first and after i checked the babies so she knew it was me as im the only 1 that deals with the rabbits anyway, so she would know my smell...sometimes i saw her jumping into the nest and the babies were screaming so i dont no if shes just abit clumsy and dont know what shes doing...only 1 got out the nest the other looked like it was still in its birthing sack...you could only make out its head!!!...i thought that the mothers can sense that theres dead babies in there so can abandon the rest!?

 

[DyemondRabbitry]

I've never had one abandon the whole litter because of one dead baby. The other thing I was thinking was maybe she had some trouble with the baby that was still in the sack (i.e. she had a hard time during birth) Sometimes when the birth is hard they won't care for them but they did last 2 days... You can rebreed her anytime. Usually I rebreed as soon as 2-3 days after the litter was all passed. You could bring her inside but that could stress her out more too- it's hard to tell based on the rabbit. Is she very social?? If she is and doesn't act out against you it should probably be fine to bring her in. I've had young does "be clumbsy" and step on babies before. They then scream and end up with scratches or torn ears... they learn soon enough though.

 

[beckz]

DyemondRabbitry wrote:

I've never had one abandon the whole litter because of one dead baby. The other thing I was thinking was maybe she had some trouble with the baby that was still in the sack (i.e. she had a hard time during birth) Sometimes when the birth is hard they won't care for them but they did last 2 days... You can rebreed her anytime. Usually I rebreed as soon as 2-3 days after the litter was all passed. You could bring her inside but that could stress her out more too- it's hard to tell based on the rabbit. Is she very social?? If she is and doesn't act out against you it should probably be fine to bring her in. I've had young does "be clumbsy" and step on babies before. They then scream and end up with scratches or torn ears... they learn soon enough though.

no i wouldnt say she is a very sociable rabbit...the male is so placid and dopey, bless him...but shes alot different...u could say there chalk and cheese, but together they are so in love, its so sweet...hes in his own hutch now cos of the babies and her being pregnant, they used to share, only cos he gets so depressed without her...i thought u would have to leave them for abit before breeding again so their milkcan dry up?...i dont know whether to wait till the weather warms up abit?...its very hard to know what to do!!!:?

 

[Flashy]

Before you breed, I do think it is important to think about why you are breeding and look at all the potential conequences.

 

[beckz]

ok so if i was to breed again, should i set up a nestbox this time instead of her building 1 herself?...as 1 of my fears was they could of died due to the cold weather which is why i wanted to bring her in, but cos shes not a very sociable rabbit maybe this is a bad idea and should try a nestbox?...can someone explain to me what a nestbox should consist of as ive read people put in a few things but want to get it right...what should the box be made of?...what should be inside it, i heard wood shavings what else?...do i just leave it like that in the bedroom depatment of the hutch when i know roughly shes due or sooner?...also would she place her own fur in the box?...as much info on this would be great

 

[BlueGiants]

A lot of does are not quite sure what to do with their first litter. I would breed her back again right away. A doe is most fertile immediately after kindling (delivering) a litter. If she is willing and your buck doesn't mind....

I'm a strong believer in Nest boxes. It gives the doe a "den" to put the babies in and it keeps the babies together (so they don't "wander off") and it makes it easier for the mom to feed them. I think it's more protected, especially when their eyes are still closed (the first 10-14 days).

I prepare the nest box with a layer of wood shavings (absorbant layer) and stuff the box full of straw.I do not use hay because hay gets wet and stays wet... straw tends to be a drier bedding. The doe will dig into the straw and make a hole (burrow), and sometime before she kindles, she will line the hole with her own fur.

I give the nest box on the 28th day after breeding (about 3 days before she is due). This gives her time to get used to the box, make a hole and get ready. Always make sure you do not place teh nest box in the corner that she poops in, or she will use it as a litter box!

 

[beckz]

BlueGiants wrote:

A lot of does are not quite sure what to do with their first litter. I would breed her back again right away. A doe is most fertile immediately after kindling (delivering) a litter. If she is willing and your buck doesn't mind....

I'm a strong believer in Nest boxes. It gives the doe a "den" to put the babies in and it keeps the babies together (so they don't "wander off") and it makes it easier for the mom to feed them. I think it's more protected, especially when their eyes are still closed (the first 10-14 days).

I prepare the nest box with a layer of wood shavings (absorbant layer) and stuff the box full of straw.I do not use hay because hay gets wet and stays wet... straw tends to be a drier bedding. The doe will dig into the straw and make a hole (burrow), and sometime before she kindles, she will line the hole with her own fur.

I give the nest box on the 28th day after breeding (about 3 days before she is due). This gives her time to get used to the box, make a hole and get ready. Always make sure you do not place teh nest box in the corner that she poops in, or she will use it as a litter box!

ok thanks...

 

[clevername]

beckz wrote:

she didnt have a nest box but she had built herself a nest in the bedroom department of the hutch...she pulled her fur out aswell and then when the babies came along she covered them as well...she covered them that well, that i didnt even know she had them till i saw the hay moving about...they seemed wrinkly so this could mean cause of death being starved!?

It really sounds like the babies died of exposure. They need a nice secure place to cuddle and if they stray or loose their bedding they can chill to death. A nestbox usually helps prevent this.

2/3 days old is really too soon to question weather they were getting fed. It takes longer than that for the kit's to starve and mom's milk doesn't always flow directly after birth. So I don't think she's a lost cause just yet.

Next time provide a nest box and don't be afraid of inspecting that nest when the babies come.

 

[beckz]

clevername wrote:

beckz wrote:

she didnt have a nest box but she had built herself a nest in the bedroom department of the hutch...she pulled her fur out aswell and then when the babies came along she covered them as well...she covered them that well, that i didnt even know she had them till i saw the hay moving about...they seemed wrinkly so this could mean cause of death being starved!?

It really sounds like the babies died of exposure. They need a nice secure place to cuddle and if they stray or loose their bedding they can chill to death. A nestbox usually helps prevent this.

2/3 days old is really too soon to question weather they were getting fed. It takes longer than that for the kit's to starve and mom's milk doesn't always flow directly after birth. So I don't think she's a lost cause just yet.

Next time provide a nest box and don't be afraid of inspecting that nest when the babies come.

ok thank you