A flemish giant breeding question -

[TinysMom]

Well the girls are gaining weight and before I know it - it will be time to breed them. Sophia is already over 11 1/2 pounds....the others aren't fall behind (even though she's younger - Nyx is over 10 pounds already).

Even though I've shared about my rabbits before - here they are:

(m)Hermes - White - carries steel behind the white and also light grey - still a bit on the small side but is the youngest of the original four. Have slightly mixed feelings about him - but he could turn around and change in a couple of weeks based on what I've seen Mercury do as he started to really show what he's got...

(m) - Mercury - light grey - biggest strength is depth of body and rise - has same father as Sophia (the best grey buck Jack Langley has)

(f) Nyx - black (we hope - not sure if she's hiding steel at all)

(f) - Sophia - very pretty light grey color -my BEST doe in my opinion - I think she has great depth - a nice rise

(f) - Athena - darker light grey color - is nice - but not as nice as Sophia - I can tell that right off. She doesn't have good depth - nice shoulders - pretty good rise - but not the depth I would like to see.



I was originally going to breed Athena to Hermes to try and get some light grey from him - and the other two girls to Mercury because he is just a REALLY NICE buck. I would like to have some whites in my line (which if I remember right - I think Athena carries).


BUT- the more I think about it - she lacks depth and he lacks depth. I think if I do this...I'm going to be producing babies that won't add anything to my breeding program....except maybe for color.

So...what I'm leaning towards - is breeding Mercury with ALL of the does the first time I breed - and then taking one or two of the best of those does (or Sophia at a later time) and breeding them to Hermes.

Does that sound like the right thing to do?

The more I look at Sophia and Mercury - the more I can see how much they are alike - which I am assuming is due to their dad.

It does mean my white program will be on hold for a bit (poor Hermes - we'll get him a stuffed toy)...but when I do start the whites - I'll have something that has some depth to it.

 

[BlueGiants]

Sounds like Mercury is going to be one tired boy! LOL! If Sophia and Mercury are half siblings, and Sophia carries good rise, I'd breed her to Hermes. Knowing his rise isn't as good as hers, keep the offspring that take after Sophia, and have the better rise. Those babies will be less related to the babies out of Mercury and the other girls. (You will probably get whites too.)

 

[TinysMom]

So it would be better to breed her to Hermes? I can see your reasoning - I just "assumed" that if I bred her to Mercury - I would be setting the rise, etc. a bit more.

So much to think about - glad I've already started to think about this first breeding this far ahead.

 

[BlueGiants]

By breeding them all to Mercury, you will end up with three litters that are all very closely related. They will all share the same sire, andone of the litters will share grand sires/grand dams on both sides. This may limit your next breedings.

If you do one litter to Hermes, (and yeah, be VERY particular what you keep out of them), you will end up with a different set of genes (on the sire side) to cross to the other babies out of Mercury. Mercury and Sophia share a sire, so her kits may be crossed back to Mercury.

 

[TinysMom]

Oh wow - gotcha. I hadn't thought that far ahead = I was just thinking how much I liked those two for their strengths.

 

[BlueGiants]

Looking forward, you really should plan on only keeping the ONE best baby out of each litter. (Unless they all end up being bucks.... LOL! ...then you look for the best doe to keep out of them all.)

No one leave here until they are 2 months old. So at 8 weeks, I take out each litter to evaluate them. (I usually already have my eye on one or two that look outstanding.) I may put aside 2-3 to see how they develop over the next few weeks, and the rest go to new homes. The better ones will be steared towards 4-H show or breeding homes. The rest go as pet/companion.

I'll keep the 2 or 3 best ones until they are 12-14 weeks. Then I re-evaluate them, and keep the best one. (And yeah, I've broken that rule and kept two if they were really outstanding.) Anything that I decide not to keep at that point is definitely going to a breeder/show home.

I know it sounds harsh to say only keep one, because they are all SO sweet and affectionate, and you want to keep them all.... (And maybe keeping Lionheads, that is an option...) But raising Flemish takes a LOT more space and a LOT more food... so be very particular what stays.

Edited to add: You can always breed Mercury to Sophia as a second breeding... It's just my thoughts that if you're going to have 3 litters at the same time, chances are you will have 3-4 animals reaching maturity at the same time... and they will probably be bred around the same time, and how hard it would be if they are all so closely related....

Also, my personal experience shows that you shouldn't discount what genes a rabbit carries... I've seen some pretty awesome animals come out of "so-so" breedings. Hermes may carry genes to add width to the shoulders or the loin that will offset the nice rise of Sophia....

 

[TinysMom]

May I ask how many does and bucks you have without being too nosy?

I was thinking out of the three litters I would try to keep two does or maybe three does at most - but no bucks because I have a hard time picturing a buck that would be better than Mercury.

I am hoping that with all the flemmies I'll have in my herd - I'll find myself able to give up my babies..it should be easier cause I have their mamas and daddies..

 

[BlueGiants]

Right now, my Flemish consist of:

Black Bucks: 3 (2 Sr, 1 Jr.)
Black Does: 4 (1 Sr, 1 6/8, 2 Jr.)

Blue Bucks: 4 (2 Sr., 1 6/8, 1 Jr.)
Blue Does: 8 (6 Sr., 1 6/8, 1 Jr.) (includes 1 Sr doe retired and ruling the roost!)

White Bucks: 2 (1 Sr., 1 6/8)
White Does:9 (6 Sr., 3 Jr.) (includes 2 Jr Does waiting to be picked up, and 2 Sr Does retired and relaxed!)

Don't sell yourself short with the bucks. Remember, a Hermes/Sophia cross may produce something better than him... and anything out of the other two breedings may give you something as good or better. Always try to have a "buck in the wings"... back-up... "stuff" happens and you should never rely on just one buck.

 

[TinysMom]

Oh wow - I'm trying to picture us trying to feed that many flemish giants!

And I was thinking I'd be bad if I had 10 or 12 at most.

Thanks for your help!

 

[BlueGiants]

Ummm... is that a lot? I've cut back... really I have. I'm down to 30... that's not bad... (of course that number may change over the next few weeks... maybe... kind of... let's just call it a fluid number.....)

I know a lots of Flemish breeders that keep herds of 200 and up... I'm small beans!

 

[TinysMom]

That's only a lot when I consider the food bill. If I had my way - I'd probably have a LOT more flemish...I can think of a couple on the forum that I'd love to steal and take home with me.

I miss my babies so much...I really do. I mean - I miss Art & Robin but I can talk to them on the phone - but I can't exactly have a conversation with Nyx (although I had a dream she was throwing a temper tantrum cause she wasn't getting enough out time).

Its amazing how these guys can steal your heart...

I'm gonna remember this post when the day comes and Art says something like, "12 flemmies is too many" or "15 flemmies is too many". I'll tell him "Well Cathy has X and she's doing fine with that..".

 

[BlueGiants]

TinysMom wrote:

"....I'll tell him "Well Cathy has X and she's doing fine with that..".

:embarrassed:Great! Art has never, ever met me and he's gonna hate me!

 

[Luv-bunniz]

TinysMom wrote:

That's only a lot when I consider the food bill. If I had my way - I'd probably have a LOT more flemish...I can think of a couple on the forum that I'd love to steal and take home with me.

What are food prices like over there then if you don't mind me asking?

We have 21 Conti's (including kits) and 4 new Flemish giant's in the Rabbitry at the moment, we get through 1 bale of hay (some used as bedding, but mostly food), 5kg of pellet food and half a bale of wood shavings per week so that only adds up to about 11USD, we could save more if we didn't use wood shavings, but we're happy with the way things run at the moment and we have no issues with respiratory upset in kits.