A few questions about my rabbits?

[paul2641]

Could someone help me with the colours of my rabbits. And any show experts can you tell me honestly do you think they could do well in a show? And do you think I could create a good line for breeding?

sukura

Roger

suki I will get a body shot in the next 2 days and she won't be so scruffy.

 

[paul2641]

:bump:bump:bump:bump

I added picture.

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

Sakura looks like a normal black to me, but being against the black couch probably doesn't really help. Can you get another picture of him/her?

Roger looks like a tort or a blue tort....

And Suki's in kind of a weird position to tell, because I only see one brown-ish dot on her nose, but I'm guessing Broken tort or some other Broken colour.

Emily

 

[TinysMom]

I only know the standards for here in the US (by the way - the standards were just changed a couple of days before Christmas and will be published in the next Domestic Rabbits magazine by ARBA). So I can only say that according to here in the US - I wouldn't show your rabbits. However, Polly or someone who shows over there could tell you more.

The US standards are now calling for a round head (think of a cat-like head) and I think smaller ears too. Your rabbits look more like the older style of lionheads that were first shown 5-6 years ago....before they started breeding them to a newer US standard.

For those who are interested - here is a link to the new US standard:

http://www.cimmarononline.com/standard08gibbons.htm

The biggest positive change (from what I've heard) is that wool on the ears is no longer a DQ but only a fault. YEAH!

 

[paul2641]

TinysMom wrote:

I only know the standards for here in the US (by the way - the standards were just changed a couple of days before Christmas and will be published in the next Domestic Rabbits magazine by ARBA). So I can only say that according to here in the US - I wouldn't show your rabbits. However, Polly or someone who shows over there could tell you more.

The US standards are now calling for a round head (think of a cat-like head) and I think smaller ears too. Your rabbits look more like the older style of lionheads that were first shown 5-6 years ago....before they started breeding them to a newer US standard.

For those who are interested - here is a link to the new US standard:

http://www.cimmarononline.com/standard08gibbons.htm

The biggest positive change (from what I've heard) is that wool on the ears is no longer a DQ but only a fault. YEAH!

Well In Ireland we have no standerds. And all are lionheads are prob decended from the american lionheads from 5/6 years ago. Who would you say is the best for show? I'll try and get some more pics.

 

[TinysMom]

I would be highly shocked if your lionheads came from American lionheads as there were no lionheads in the US till....oh my....maybe 9 years ago now? They were imported from the UK and I forget where else....but lionheads were over there before they were over here.

Lionhead Rabbit
HISTORY
There has been a lot of speculation on how the Lionhead rabbit began, but it is just that, purely speculation. I'm a history buff when it comes to rabbits and have spent nearly a year trying to piece together, just where did our Lionheads come from.
The breed did not first appear in 1996 as previously published, because they first arrived in England in the later part of 1995. It has been said that the Lionhead rabbit was produced by crossing the Swiss Fox and the Netherland Dwarf. That idea was just someone's opinion when questioned as to how they came about. The idea that the Jersey Wooly was also used in the make up of the breed is totally false. The Jersey Wooly is not recognized in any European country, nor is the breed found in the United Kingdom. One source tells me that while breeders were working on the Angora Dwarf, the Lionhead mutation occurred in a litter of bunnies. That statement there was my beginning lead in piecing the history together. One thing for certain is the Lionhead rabbit is a mutation and the first major mutation in rabbits since 1932 when the Satin rabbit first appeared in a litter of Havanas.

There is more information here: http://www.rarebitsandpieces.com/Liionhead.htm

​

My question is - if you have no standards over there - how can you show them? You asked if they could do well in a show - but its hard to show without a standard...so I guess I'm confused.

I will say that after breeding lionheads for three years and learning what to look for in lionheads (and learning to hold out for only good quality lionheads) - I would not breed these. None of them have anything that is "outstanding" as far as their body type (from what I can see), their mane or their faces. If you want to breed for high quality - then you want the very very best buck you can get - he has to be near perfect. If Suki has the full butterfly on the nose - then yes - you might want to breed with her - but its hard to say without seeing her full markings. I think there they would be called "butterfly" - here she'd be a broken something - broken blue maybe? I can't tell her coloring in that photo.

Here are some examples of well-marked brokens here in the US..you can even see at a young age that they have really nice markings.

​

 

[paul2641]

We've only had lionheads for at max 5 years. So you think I shouldn't breed my lionheads. But you see in Ireland your not going to get much better in lionheads I have seen things with hair coming out of there ears and are classed lionheads. And I have seen thing said to be purebred with no mane at all. The quality of rabbits was never up to par with your rabbits and prob never will. Because no one has any interest in setting up an association. Look up rabbit breeders in Ireland you won't find any. There is No quality in Are rabbits. I would love to fly to England and get some good stock.

I looked at suki she seems to have the butterfly markings well the look like the ones you posted I'll get a pic of full body if it kills me. If suki does have these markings Would my best bet be to try and get another butterfly. And try breed butterfly lionheads?

 

[polly]

First one is self black, second one is sooty fawn and the 3rd one is hard to tell without a look at his back but wondering broken butterfly chocolate??

They are still slightly mixed breeds and they are single maned by the looks of things as in they haven't held their mane very well it will moult in and moult back out again sometimes leaving them not very fluffy. I am preety sure (without having my standard to hand ) that ear length is allowed to be 3 1/2 inches max weight is 3.5 lbs

Here is a picture of our Lisa when we were showing her to let you see what you are looking for. She was showing as aunder 5 monthsso she is allowed the side skirts round her bum but as an adult they are meant to be completely smooth other than their mane and chest hair

 

[irishbunny]

Your rabbits are gorgeus, especially Sukura, you won't get much better in this country. Paul's right, there are no standards here. Rabbits are only pets, meat or used with greyhounds for the greyhounds to chase and rip apart. Not many people breed purebred rabbits, some do, but more don't. Rabbits are usually bred for cuteness and colour. Like oh that rabbit is cute, and that rabbit has a nice colour let's breed them. Plus, here whether a rabbit is purebred or not it's still going to end up in a pet home.

Also, here no one really has big rabbitries. You know like in the USA when you breed rabbits, you might keep some of the nice offspring? Well here they don't. They have a male and female and they just breed and sell the babies, they don't really keep the offspring for further breeding or anything. Until an association or club starts up that's the way it's going to stay. To be honest, I'm not sure if I want one to start up. When the IKC (Irish Kennel Club)was setup more people got into dog breeding, and there was a big increase in homeless dogs and now there are shelters full of dogs.

I'd be worried that if a club or association started here more people would get into breeding and then we would get a rabbit overpopulation problem. Like in the USA and UK you have ARBA and BRC and have, from what I read here, huge overpopulation problems. But then again, it would be nice to get intouch with breeders and have some standards, but with so many other animals being bredand shelters full of cats and dogs, we could do without adding another animal to shelters. So it might also be better if breeding stayed the way it is now, as it isn't causing any problems.

 

[pamnock]

The UK lion standard is similar to ours. I think you can work with the rabbits you have. You don't need to get another butterfly (butterfly is dominant - don't breed butterfly to butterfly due to light markings).



Pam

 

[polly]

From looking at the pictures in your blog I would not breed these rabbits for 2 main reasons

1) you can't see it in these pictures but they are very long coated and wooly which is not desirable on lionheads I mean over their body not their heads.

2) They would be more a lot of work for people with the grooming and a lot of people are not going to do that especially for a pet. Therefore how would you feel if you found one of your rabbits all matted and knotted like some of the rescued angoras on this forum? FOr pets they are going to be hard work to look after and not really suibtable for children which is what a lot of people buy a rabbit for.

They would not be showable even if you did have shows and they would be hard work as pets to keep them groomed and tidy. It would be better to go for a short hair breed where you live if you really want to breed.

 

[paul2641]

irishbunny wrote:

Your rabbits are gorgeus, especially Sukura, you won't get much better in this country. Paul's right, there are no standards here. Rabbits are only pets, meat or used with greyhounds for the greyhounds to chase and rip apart. Not many people breed purebred rabbits, some do, but more don't. Rabbits are usually bred for cuteness and colour. Like oh that rabbit is cute, and that rabbit has a nice colour let's breed them. Plus, here whether a rabbit is purebred or not it's still going to end up in a pet home.

Also, here no one really has big rabbitries. You know like in the USA when you breed rabbits, you might keep some of the nice offspring? Well here they don't. They have a male and female and they just breed and sell the babies, they don't really keep the offspring for further breeding or anything. Until an association or club starts up that's the way it's going to stay. To be honest, I'm not sure if I want one to start up. When the IKC (Irish Kennel Club)was setup more people got into dog breeding, and there was a big increase in homeless dogs and now there are shelters full of dogs.

I'd be worried that if a club or association started here more people would get into breeding and then we would get a rabbit overpopulation problem. Like in the USA and UK you have ARBA and BRC and have, from what I read here, huge overpopulation problems. But then again, it would be nice to get intouch with breeders and have some standards, but with so many other animals being bredand shelters full of cats and dogs, we could do without adding another animal to shelters. So it might also be better if breeding stayed the way it is now, as it isn't causing any problems.

She's not just cute she's also very friendly. Thanks for completementing my rabbits. If you are ever looking for a nice lionhead go to paws and claws, foxs bow that's were I got roger and suki. I got sukura in petmania. If standerds and shows were brought over here we most defo would end up with an overpopulation. Most people would see rabbit breeding as a quick and easy way to make money and not care for any standerds and instead of improving are rabbits I say we could end up going backwards.

 

[TinysMom]

polly wrote:

From looking at the pictures in your blog I would not breed these rabbits for 2 main reasons

1) you can't see it in these pictures but they are very long coated and wooly which is not desirable on lionheads I mean over their body not their heads.

2) They would be more a lot of work for people with the grooming and a lot of people are not going to do that especially for a pet. Therefore how would you feel if you found one of your rabbits all matted and knotted like some of the rescued angoras on this forum? FOr pets they are going to be hard work to look after and not really suibtable for children which is what a lot of people buy a rabbit for.

They would not be showable even if you did have shows and they would be hard work as pets to keep them groomed and tidy. It would be better to go for a short hair breed where you live if you really want to breed.

:yeahthat:

I'm going to step out of this thread and let Polly and Pam and others handle it. I really don't think you're going to listen to me and I don't think you want to hear what I am saying.

I would not start breeding with those rabbits. They are not the quality of rabbit you should start breeding with....of course that is personal opinion based upon my experience....but Ireland, UK or US - I wouldn't start breeding with those rabbits based upon the pictures I saw in your blog.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[irishbunny]

I left this message in your blog but I think it kind of applies here too

I think you are going about breeding totally the wrong way, alot of the things Flashy has already pointed out that you skipped/missed. The most obvious thing is you still have a mature male and female living together? It also sounds like she's pregnant, because she's attacking you. You do know that if she has babies there she could kill them from the stress of being in that cage? Possible even injure the male?You seem to have rushed into breeding from the minute you got your rabbitsand have not spent that much time getting to know the animal, you need to spend time interacting with them, there's only so much you can learn from the internet, the rest comes from experience. If you want to improve Irish breeding you need to be a good role model.

What you should do now is get seperate cages for each of your rabbits, and get to know them and what the animal is like before rushing into breeding and running off getting more rabbits. From what the breeders are saying here, the rabbits you chose to breed aren't even a good match. You need to slow down and sort yourself out a bit. Get a cage for each of your rabbits and go from there, and don't buy anymore till your ready.

I also want to add that you should take up on Polly's offer and talk to her, she is about as close as your going to get to talk to nearby.

 

[paul2641]

pamnock wrote:

The UK lion standard is similar to ours. I think you can work with the rabbits you have. You don't need to get another butterfly (butterfly is dominant - don't breed butterfly to butterfly due to light markings).



Pam

No I am seriously considering importing some show quality rabbits from America or england. I really would like to get some angoras as well. Could you point me in a good direction?

 

[paul2641]

TinysMom wrote:

polly wrote:

From looking at the pictures in your blog I would not breed these rabbits for 2 main reasons

1) you can't see it in these pictures but they are very long coated and wooly which is not desirable on lionheads I mean over their body not their heads.

2) They would be more a lot of work for people with the grooming and a lot of people are not going to do that especially for a pet. Therefore how would you feel if you found one of your rabbits all matted and knotted like some of the rescued angoras on this forum? FOr pets they are going to be hard work to look after and not really suibtable for children which is what a lot of people buy a rabbit for.

They would not be showable even if you did have shows and they would be hard work as pets to keep them groomed and tidy. It would be better to go for a short hair breed where you live if you really want to breed.

:yeahthat:

I'm going to step out of this thread and let Polly and Pam and others handle it. I really don't think you're going to listen to me and I don't think you want to hear what I am saying.

I would not start breeding with those rabbits. They are not the quality of rabbit you should start breeding with....of course that is personal opinion based upon my experience....but Ireland, UK or US - I wouldn't start breeding with those rabbits based upon the pictures I saw in your blog.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

I'm actaully very sorry to have disrespected you and your knowlendge. I might not breed with them if I can get some nice stock from England or America but Iam only a child so I will have to save for ages. But I really want to improve standerds over here.

 

[pamnock]

paul2641 wrote:

No I am seriously considering importing some show quality rabbits from America or england. I really would like to get some angoras as well. Could you point me in a good direction?

I think that this is really going to depend on your budget. How much do you have to spend?

Pam

 

[paul2641]

pamnock wrote:

paul2641 wrote:

No I am seriously considering importing some show quality rabbits from America or england. I really would like to get some angoras as well. Could you point me in a good direction?

I think that this is really going to depend on your budget. How much do you have to spend?

Pam

I have about €300 at the moment.

 

[irishbunny]

I wouldn't import from the USA, it's cruel and stressful on the rabbits and I'm pretty sure if you get angoras, no one is going to be grooming them for their six months in quarantine. I think you should use that 300 to improve the lifes of the rabbits you already have, like gettingtwo new cages

 

[paul2641]

irishbunny wrote:

I wouldn't import from the USA, it's cruel and stressful on the rabbits and I'm pretty sure if you get angoras, no one is going to be grooming them for their six months in quarantine. I think you should use that 300 to improve the lifes of the rabbits you already have, like gettingtwo new cages

Do you really have to quarantine them? And If you get them from England do you have to quarantine them? I'll ask mam can I get one tomarrow.