7 day-old kit makes chirping/coughing sounds?

[Bunny_Mommy]

I just lost the sibling about 10 hours ago. The 7 day old kit is the smallest one, and for about 24 hours has been occasionally making a squeaky, almost coughing sound and opening/closing its mouth (like savoring something?). Most of the time, the baby is quiet. The other bunnies sometimes make a similar sound, but after losing FOUR kits suddenly in two weeks, I cannot bear the thought of losing another. Aside from that, the kit is warm, active and strong like the others.

Am I just paranoid? I am not happy with how my vet handled the other kit yesterday, so I am hesitant to take him unless it is an emergency. Is there anything I can do on my own, if it is an issue? Can the kit get pneumonia from drinking too much milk, allowing it to go the wrong way?

Please help. I love these kits so much...

 

[JBun]

A rabbit breathing from it's mouth is always a sign of breathing difficulty, which is always a bad sign. If the baby has noisy breathing and is mouth breathing, it's in respiratory distress and likely has developed aspiration pneumonia. This is an immediate emergency that requires prompt vet care. Chances of survival aren't good, but to have any chance the baby would like need antibiotics, possibly nebulized, other nebulized medication to help with the airways, and will also need to be put in an oxygen chamber. If you aren't happy with that vet, check the vet list for your state to see if you might have a better rabbit vet near you.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Respiratory/Illness/Pneumonia/Pneumon_en.htm (contains medical related photos)
https://rabbit.org/vet-listings/

If you are losing multiple kits from pneumonia, you have something going on there causing it that you will need to figure out. If the kits are being syringe fed, that can be the cause as they can easily aspirate the contents from syringe feeding. Which is why hand feeding kits is considered a last resort due to the risks.

 

[Bunny_Mommy]

A rabbit breathing from it's mouth is always a sign of breathing difficulty, which is always a bad sign. If the baby has noisy breathing and is mouth breathing, it's in respiratory distress and likely has developed aspiration pneumonia. This is an immediate emergency that requires prompt vet care. Chances of survival aren't good, but to have any chance the baby would like need antibiotics, possibly nebulized, other nebulized medication to help with the airways, and will also need to be put in an oxygen chamber. If you aren't happy with that vet, check the vet list for your state to see if you might have a better rabbit vet near you.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Respiratory/Illness/Pneumonia/Pneumon_en.htm (contains medical related photos)
https://rabbit.org/vet-listings/

If you are losing multiple kits from pneumonia, you have something going on there causing it that you will need to figure out. If the kits are being syringe fed, that can be the cause as they can easily aspirate the contents from syringe feeding. Which is why hand feeding kits is considered a last resort due to the risks.

Thanks so much for the reply. I was not certain if it was a cough for sure, and I did not know they could get sick from Mommy's milk.

Based on your advice, I did make an appointment with the only other exotic vet just in case. I let her hear the kit, and she said it sounded a bit hoarse but not much like a cough to her. I guess like a hoarse chirp? Regardless, I will update after I return.

As for losing kits, some were born deceased and the others started off viable but small, then passed. I am very upset about the last one, because she started off perfect, aside from sometimes slipping off the mom's nipple but still healthy. The first litters from both my girls were perfect and all survived, now at least one baby is born deceased per litter... so disappointed. Storm just lost half her litter -- two born deceased (one seemingly without a head) and two passed...

Thank goodness the dad is neutered, but will be locked up for 4 weeks to guarantee no more babies.

 

[Bunny_Mommy]

So I went to the new vet, and apparently she thinks the baby has a poor prognosis, despite being so active and strong. She is afraid the baby might have pneumonia, so all I could do is either take an xray to identify the true cause, leave the baby on oxygen/hospitalized or take him home and use antibiotics and anti inflammatory medication, which I have at home. She also said I can lightly tap the chest every 2 hours to possibly break up the mucus, and use a humidifier to help. I did all of these things, but it is nearly impossible to comprehend that my baby might not make it... he has fur, eyes will open in a few days, and happily drinks mommy's milk until he can barely move... I am doing all that I can, but I cannot believe this. The cough is not super constant...

Has a bunny EVER survived with this issue? The vet actually specializes in birds, but bunnies. I just really, really hope he will be alright. I love this bunny so much-- and his little white shirt, black pants and socks

 

[Imbrium]

*Hugs!* I don't have any advice on this issue, but please know my little warren and I will be keeping your sweet baby in our thoughts! I really hope the little guy makes it.

 

[JBun]

They can survive if it is caught early enough and antibiotics are started, which based on you describing him still being active, strong, and nursing, you may have managed to do. It's when they are lethargic and won't eat that their chances of survival are not very good. So just continue to do all you can and there is a good chance he could make it.

 

[Bunny_Mommy]

Thank you so very much for the kind words, @Imbrium.

@JBun thank you so much for the tips and hope. I am doing all that I can for this sweet little one.

2 days on antibiotics and anti inflammatory plus the humidifier in a small room, the baby is rarely coughing, but the cough is more quiet than it was-- is this a bad sign? The bunny is also breathing out of his mouth less, walking around, drinking A LOT of mommy's milk, and is grooming himself a little, as normal for a 1 week+ year old bunny. The bunny is a little weaker than the bigger ones, and makes less noise (does not "squawk" as much). I doubt the medication would work this quickly, so I am concerned about the quiet cough. At first on late Tuesday night, the bunny was coughing almost all the time, then after the vet (Thursday afternoon), only about half the time. I regret not taking the baby in Wednesday, but I truly tried to save his sibling that day.

I am thinking about buying a nebulizer, but I do allow the baby to inhale some steam from the humidifier (not where it is too hot), a few times a day, for a minute or so. Is this necessary? The vet had me use the humidifier instead. Also, all of the babies are together with the humidifier running 24/7. I leave the door cracked a little for Oreo to come in and feed them

 

[Imbrium]

I dunno, antibiotics start working right away and do enough to cause a noticeable reduction in symptoms in 2-3 days for humans... from what I've seen in very small animals, it seems more like 1-2 days (rabbits' faster metabolism may also help here). The anti-inflammatory definitely works from the first dose and inflammation in the lungs could've been causing or contributing to the cough, too. The fact that he's still alive AND showing significant improvement indicates to me that he's on the right meds and they're doing what they need to. Aren't nebulizers used to aerosolize medications? What were you wanting to use that for? I've had a vet do that once for one of our cats who came home from the shelter with a terrible URI (not symptomatic until a few days after we got him), but he was so congested he was having trouble breathing.

I think you're being a bit paranoid, as we all our when our little ones don't feel right . It sounds like he's on the mend for sure and I bet he appreciates the heck out of the vet trip! Just make sure to give the *entire* course of antibiotics even if he seems 100% better, just to make sure whatever this was doesn't come back.

 

[Bunny_Mommy]

I dunno, antibiotics start working right away and do enough to cause a noticeable reduction in symptoms in 2-3 days for humans... from what I've seen8 in very small animals, it seems more like 1-2 days (rabbits' faster metabolism may also help here). The anti-inflammatory definitely works from the first dose and inflammation in the lungs could've been causing or contributing to the cough, too. The fact that he's still alive AND showing significant improvement indicates to me that he's on the right meds and they're doing what they need to. Aren't nebulizers used to aerosolize medications? What were you wanting to use that for? I've had a vet do that once for one of our cats who came home from the shelter with a terrible URI (not symptomatic until a few days after we got him), but he was so congested he was having trouble breathing.

I think you're being a bit paranoid, as we all our when our little ones don't feel right . It sounds like he's on the mend for sure and I bet he appreciates the heck out of the vet trip! Just make sure to give the *entire* course of antibiotics even if he seems 100% better, just to make sure whatever this was doesn't come back.

I see, thank you so much for the very helpful information. I did not know that about antibiotics, but it makes sense. I am hopeful, although I am indeed, paranoid due to losing two babies over 5 days old last week.

The nebulizer was because I saw a video about it helping a sick bunny with pneumonia, that survived-- and read about it helping. The vet did not necessarily recommend it (did not feel it was necessary?) Another thing that makes me very paranoid is that the vet strongly implied that he will not make it. She gave him a 25% chance based on past observations and how his lungs apparently sounded at the time. Maybe that was her mindset, because she kept urging me to get an autopsy if he does not make it; but also stressed that the bunny may be doomed due to a genetic issue. I am no vet, but I am pretty certain he got sick from mommy Oreo's milk going the wrong way, because he started coughing soon after the first nursing at around 8 pm or 9 pm. Started choking/coughing at 10 pm, but I did not know what to do besides massage his chest.

Yes, I will be sure to give the baby the medication for the correct number of days, then I will have the lungs checked again. Thanks so much, that is very important to note. Thanks again, you are the best

 

[Imbrium]

Aww, poor guy, I didn't know the prognosis was so grim . I missed (well, forgot from earlier post) the "pneumonia" part - that one can be quite tough to clear up and is among the riskier conditions for a rabbit to have and I believe it's not uncommon to have to give more than one round of antibiotics to clear it up. It does sound like he may have gotten aspiration pneumonia from inhaling milk. For some reason, I want to say that I think I remember aspiration pneumonia being a little less dangerous than some other types but I could easily be remembering that wrong. JBun would know better than me on that one.

Also, I recommend giving a probiotic like BeneBac with the antibiotics (especially since he's so young - antibiotics can be quite harsh). BeneBac is not only safe for newborns, it has instructions specifically for them (I assume any brand is ok at his age). Just make sure to wait 2-3 hours between antibiotics and probiotics or vice-versa.

Still praying for the little guy! He's so insanely tiny and adorable. I can't believe that our little Harley Quinn looked just like that once (aside from a white tip on one of her ears). I really hope he pulls through.

 

[Bunny_Mommy]

Aww, poor guy, I didn't know the prognosis was so grim . I missed (well, forgot from earlier post) the "pneumonia" part - that one can be quite tough to clear up and is among the riskier conditions for a rabbit to have and I believe it's not uncommon to have to give more than one round of antibiotics to clear it up. It does sound like he may have gotten aspiration pneumonia from inhaling milk. For some reason, I want to say that I think I remember aspiration pneumonia being a little less dangerous than some other types but I could easily be remembering that wrong. JBun would know better than me on that one.

Also, I recommend giving a probiotic like BeneBac with the antibiotics (especially since he's so young - antibiotics can be quite harsh). BeneBac is not only safe for newborns, it has instructions specifically for them (I assume any brand is ok at his age). Just make sure to wait 2-3 hours between antibiotics and probiotics or vice-versa.

Still praying for the little guy! He's so insanely tiny and adorable. I can't believe that our little Harley Quinn looked just like that once (aside from a white tip on one of her ears). I really hope he pulls through.

It is alright. She did not confirm it was pneumonia, but I am assuming it is-- or beginning. I should have just tried to take both of them in at once. It is just that he is so strong and active! I barely tapped him but he jumped like 4 inches in the air while in the nestbox. I am hoping the vet was just being a bit negative, for lack of a better word. She made a random comment about how "hyper" he is, but all of my baby rabbits are like that-- love jumping around, wiggling and squawking at 7+ days old

Maybe you are right, because aspiration pneumonia is not really caused by bacteria or anything, right? Thanks again for the thoughts and prayers. If he is still here by Tuesday, I would like to think he is going to make it.

And I bet your Harley Quinn is so cute! It is funny how these bunnies look like different breeds despite being crosses (he is half Mini Rex).

 

[Imbrium]

Antibiotics only work on aspiration pneumonia because if the food/liquid particles stay in the lung long enough (rather than getting coughed out), any icky bacteria that was in/on the food (or rabbit's mouth at the time of consumption) and entered the lungs with it starts to grow, causing the irritation and inflammation to develop into pneumonia. It's quite possible the cough was more due to the inhaled milk on newborn lungs than true pneumonia - if you got him on antibiotics before or very shortly after the aspirated milk started to cause a case of pneumonia, that definitely increases his odds. Usually when you aspirate something, your immune system + cough mechanisms take care of it - it's the very old and very young (and anyone else whose immune system isn't 100%) that are most susceptible to this type of pneumonia. Come to think of it, all of mom's milk he's been stuffing himself with probably helps too, hehe, since it's got antibodies and such from her immune system (one of the reasons why hand-rearing newborn kits is almost never successful).

[Edit: I guess the highlight I left out of that explanation is that the difference between aspiration pneumonia and any other type is that the cough first starts BEFORE the infection actually sets in, rather than after.]

I just assumed by the markings that he was a dutch, which is what HQ is... but she's got a white tip to one of her ears. That + blue eyes = super cute! She's a charmer for sure. I can't wait to get pics of him when he's bigger! By the way, did the vet know that he may have inhaled milk? If not (meaning she suspected a different type of pneumonia) perhaps that's why the prognosis was so grim. It's an educated guess, but I'd say if you caught things before the bacteria developed much, he's probably got a 50-75% chance. The significant improvements (and healthy appetite/activity level) bode very well for him.

 

[JBun]

No, aspiration pneumonia is incredibly dangerous, and quite often fatal, especially with baby rabbits inhaling milk. Aspiration pneumonia turns into bacterial pneumonia, so that is why antibiotics are needed. So the vet was right to be very concerned, but it sounds like the little guy is responding well to the medications and is improving by your description.

If there is less mouth breathing and less coughing, I would see that as a good sign. A reduction in mouth breathing would mean there is a reduced need for increased respiratory effort, and that the baby can breath easier. I would just keep up with what you are doing. It seems to be working and from what you describe, it sounds like the baby is headed in the right direction.

If the baby was continuing to have increased mouth breathing and coughing then I would say a nebulizer would definitely be helpful, but at this point with the baby showing so much improvement, it's going to be something you and your vet need to decide if it's still needed or not. Things that would be used for nebulization would be sterile saline, medications for the airway, and/or antibiotics.

 

[Imbrium]

Ok, so I remembered backwards and it's the worst one ... not that it changes my thoughts much, as we're talking the difference between which one's an 8 and which is a 9 on a scale of 1-10 since ALL pneumonias are very dangerous to rabbits and require aggressive treatment. I guess I got thrown off by his swift improvement. I stand by my instinct, though, to be hopeful based purely on just how quickly and how significantly he's improving. Quick action in the early stages makes a big difference, so you were right to get him to the vet and put him on antibiotics.

 

[Bunny_Mommy]

No, aspiration pneumonia is incredibly dangerous, and quite often fatal, especially with baby rabbits inhaling milk. Aspiration pneumonia turns into bacterial pneumonia, so that is why antibiotics are needed. So the vet was right to be very concerned, but it sounds like the little guy is responding well to the medications and is improving by your description.

If there is less mouth breathing and less coughing, I would see that as a good sign. A reduction in mouth breathing would mean there is a reduced need for increased respiratory effort, and that the baby can breath easier. I would just keep up with what you are doing. It seems to be working and from what you describe, it sounds like the baby is headed in the right direction.

If the baby was continuing to have increased mouth breathing and coughing then I would say a nebulizer would definitely be helpful, but at this point with the baby showing so much improvement, it's going to be something you and your vet need to decide if it's still needed or not. Things that would be used for nebulization would be sterile saline, medications for the airway, and/or antibiotics.

Hmm, I see.

I was very concerned for the next 24 hours after the vet visit. He was mouth breathing quite a bit, almost clinching his teeth, and worst of all, lifting his head-- which is obviously a bad sign for any rabbit. The heartbreaking sound of his little cough was bad enough...

Alright, I will ask her on Monday, and if there is a definite way to know that he will be alright, and will not grow up with serious issues (I will not rehome him, after all; assuming he makes it). Thank you SO MUCH for advising me that it was an emergency. Might have saved a bunny's life

Antibiotics only work on aspiration pneumonia because if the food/liquid particles stay in the lung long enough (rather than getting coughed out), any icky bacteria that was in/on the food (or rabbit's mouth at the time of consumption) and entered the lungs with it starts to grow, causing the irritation and inflammation to develop into pneumonia. It's quite possible the cough was more due to the inhaled milk on newborn lungs than true pneumonia - if you got him on antibiotics before or very shortly after the aspirated milk started to cause a case of pneumonia, that definitely increases his odds. Usually when you aspirate something, your immune system + cough mechanisms take care of it - it's the very old and very young (and anyone else whose immune system isn't 100%) that are most susceptible to this type of pneumonia. Come to think of it, all of mom's milk he's been stuffing himself with probably helps too, hehe, since it's got antibodies and such from her immune system (one of the reasons why hand-rearing newborn kits is almost never successful).

[Edit: I guess the highlight I left out of that explanation is that the difference between aspiration pneumonia and any other type is that the cough first starts BEFORE the infection actually sets in, rather than after.]

I just assumed by the markings that he was a dutch, which is what HQ is... but she's got a white tip to one of her ears. That + blue eyes = super cute! She's a charmer for sure. I can't wait to get pics of him when he's bigger! By the way, did the vet know that he may have inhaled milk? If not(meaning she suspected a different type of pneumonia) perhaps that's why theprognosis was so grim. It's an educated guess, but I'd say if you caught thingsbefore the bacteria developed much, he's probably got a 50-75% chance. The significant improvements (and healthy appetite/activity level) bode very well for him.

Ah, very informative. Thank you.

Your bunny must be super cute! I love those defining characteristics like white tips, white noses, white tummies...OMG that kills me. I am sure this bunny has mostly Dutch genes... I never knew crosses can have the full pattern.

By the way, the vet did not know it was likely from milk. I declined doing xrays because sadly, she told me he would require the same treatment regardless, and I am confident he inhaled the milk. She stressed it can be many things, such as a disease going around, a cleft palate, or a genetic issue. She almost ignored what I told her about the coughing right after feeding, but she definitely meant well and wanted me to be informed of every possibility...

Thanks so much again for the encouragement and information; I feel a little better now and learned a lot. His eyes are also beginning to open and he is hopping around the nestbox!! Hopefully he will look like your girl, HQ

 

[Imbrium]

Here's a pic of Harley Quinn (and Big Bunny and Nala, at that)... the gray on her paws is from having newspaper in her cage at the shelter:

Just so she isn't left out, one of Alicey too:

 

[Bunny_Mommy]

Here's a pic of Harley Quinn (and Big Bunny and Nala, at that)... the gray on her paws is from having newspaper in her cage at the shelter:

Just so she isn't left out, one of Alicey too:

OMG, so cute! So I guess it is not unusual to have three or four pet bunnies I LOVE Big Bunny's name, haha. That is Storm's nickname. HQ is so pretty with her chiseled face, and designer black pants^_^ And look at Alicey just chilling all comfortably. Is she half lop? Such sweet bunny babies.

 

[Imbrium]

Alice is purebred Holland (false dwarf, though, so big for the breed) - she only looks like she has helicopter ears because one is caught on the hay manger .

 

[Bunny_Mommy]

Panda is 2 1/2 weeks old, has not coughed since Friday, and seems very healthy Follow-up vet appointment on Thursday!

 

[JBun]

Hooray!!! I was so worried clicking on your update, but that is fantastic news! And Panda is such an adorable little fluffster.