Emergency vet won't take bunny -- she has a cold :(

serabeth · Oct 29, 2024

Not sure if anyone is able to help me with this. My lop (4 year old spayed female) is sick -- she's always had some sort of respiratory condition, but every time we have taken her to the vet for a checkup, they decide that she's fine. We've asked if we can have a prescription to keep a nebulizer on hand when she has trouble breathing. We've taken videos and pictures and documented her breathing issues -- nothing.

Anyways, today she started sneezing more than usual and when I gave her and her bondmate their pellets, I noticed she suddenly stopped eating. I went over and it seemed like her mouth was stuck shut. I got my husband to help me look at her and at first, we thought she had gotten into something sticky. We couldn't find anything sticky though and as she sneezed again and more snot came out, we realized it was dried snot.

I tried to clean it off her face with a damp towel, but realized I would need something more. I googled it, and apparently people have had success with warm water and a bit of dawn dish soap. I tried that and we were able to get her mouth unstuck and she ate the piece of strawberry that we'd tried to feed her earlier then. Then she started blowing snot bubbles out of her nose. I read that people have used baby nose syringes to get the snot out....we didn't have that, but I found an ear syringe bulb, cleaned it off, and we started suctioning her.

We got a lot of it out and she was starting to breathe more easily, but it seemed like some might be dried higher up. So we brought down a pot of water and a single cooktop thing (it's a plug-in induction stovetop) and heated the water to a steam. She actually really seemed to like that and she was breathing more easily and fell asleep.

So I started cleaning up her area to make sure I could get rid of as much dust as possible and replaced all of their hay with fresh hay. I tried to get her to eat some leaves and drink some water, but she only nibbled on a bit before going into her tunnel to hide.

While all of this was going on, my husband called the emergency vet that had been recommended to us by her usual vet. They asked if she was vaccinated...the last I'd heard, the vaccine was not available in my state (PA), but I guess it is starting to become available since the rabbit virus has spread here, too. Either way, our vet did not have the vaccine. She has no contact with the outside at all and has no bleeding at all -- just the snot and sneezing. We told them this, but they still wouldn't take her.

We're going to try calling our vet in the morning, but because we live in a rural area, this vet travels between a few locations and so it might be difficult to get a hold of her. We'll try to get someone else if not.

Anyone have any suggestions for making her more comfortable? I don't know what to do -- she was the runt of the litter, much smaller than the other bunnies, and she's always been a bit more frail than our other two bunnies. I don't know if I should just let her sleep or continue to try to get her to eat/drink. When she's near the steam from the pot, she seems to breathe/sleep more easily. When I wake her up is when she starts sniffling and sneezing, so I'm wondering if I should just let her sleep for now?

I was thinking maybe something like bendaryl might help her symptoms? I googled it and it seems like people have safely given it to their rabbit. But I couldn't find a reliable source for dosing. She's only about 3 lbs.

JBun · Oct 29, 2024

With my rabbit that had a serious respiratory infection, liquid children's benadryl (diphenhydramine, no added artificial sweeteners) really helped decrease the sticky discharge. But this was in conjunction to also getting a heavy-duty antibiotic (azithromycin). So I don't know if benadryl alone is a good idea or not, and without vet advise.

Azithromycin has been one of the most effective antibiotics for treating infections with my rabbits. There was significant improvement within 2-3 days, and it cleared up some difficult head infections that didn't respond as well to other antibiotics tried. The higher 50mg/kg dose for extended treatment (3+ weeks) did end up being needed as the lower dose and shorter treatment ended up with the infection returning. Fyi, azithromycin does carry some risk of causing serious digestive upset (usually best given on an empty stomach), so not appropriate for some rabbits. Thought I'd provide this additional info in case you need it when discussing things with your vet.

https://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Respiratory/Bacterial/URI.htm

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Snuffles

If she's not to the point of mouth breathing, that at least is a good sign. Mouth breathing indicates significant respiratory distress. I would continue to try and keep her nasal passage as clear as is possible with the bulb syringe and steam. If she hasn't been able to eat much of anything, maybe make a pellet mush with warm water, and see if she'll eat that. If she won't eat and you're considering syringe feeding, just be extremely careful, going slow and giving her time to chew each small amount. There's an increased risk of aspiration with her having difficulty breathing already, so this is really only an option if you feel it's absolutely necessary before getting her to the vet tomorrow.

Can you find an actual knowledgeable rabbit vet to take your bun to, even if a few hours drive is needed (if possible in your situation)? The other vet doesn't seem the best, and your rabbit sounds like she has a pretty serious respiratory infection, that if left improperly treated, could develop into critical respiratory distress.

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Pennsylvania

https://rabbit.org/care/rabbit-vets-near-me/

JBun · Oct 29, 2024

I think my rabbit got the full 2mg/kg dose, every 6-8 hours. Though 1mg/kg was tried first. This isn't a recommendation, as I'm not a vet. So only providing the info on what was used for my rabbit. Again, no artificial sweetener option ( believe it was the benedryl brand in cherry).

(end of list under other medications, informational purposes only)
https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Common_drug_dosages_for_rabbits

serabeth · Oct 29, 2024

JBun said:
With my rabbit that had a serious respiratory infection, liquid children's benadryl (diphenhydramine, no added artificial sweeteners) really helped decrease the sticky discharge. But this was in conjunction to also getting a heavy-duty antibiotic (azithromycin). So I don't know if benadryl alone is a good idea or not, and without vet advise.

Azithromycin has been one of the most effective antibiotics for treating infections with my rabbits. There was significant improvement within 2-3 days, and it cleared up some difficult head infections that didn't respond as well to other antibiotics tried. The higher 50mg/kg dose for extended treatment (3+ weeks) did end up being needed as the lower dose and shorter treatment ended up with the infection returning. Fyi, azithromycin does carry some risk of causing serious digestive upset (usually best given on an empty stomach), so not appropriate for some rabbits. Thought I'd provide this additional info in case you need it when discussing things with your vet.

https://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Respiratory/Bacterial/URI.htm

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Snuffles

If she's not to the point of mouth breathing, that at least is a good sign. Mouth breathing indicates significant respiratory distress. I would continue to try and keep her nasal passage as clear as is possible with the bulb syringe and steam. If she hasn't been able to eat much of anything, maybe make a pellet mush with warm water, and see if she'll eat that. If she won't eat and you're considering syringe feeding, just be extremely careful, going slow and giving her time to chew each small amount. There's an increased risk of aspiration with her having difficulty breathing already, so this is really only an option if you feel it's absolutely necessary before getting her to the vet tomorrow.

Can you find an actual knowledgeable rabbit vet to take your bun to, even if a few hours drive is needed (if possible in your situation)? The other vet doesn't seem the best, and your rabbit sounds like she has a pretty serious respiratory infection, that if left improperly treated, could develop into critical respiratory distress.

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Pennsylvania

https://rabbit.org/care/rabbit-vets-near-me/

Thank you for the information! I didn't know about that wabbitwiki website, and I can see that apparently there are many locations in PA offering the vaccine. I really hope that doesn't prevent us from getting care. There is no possibility of my rabbits having been exposed to the virus, but I understand that with something as serious and deadly as that disease, they aren't going to take my word for it.

She seems to be perking up a bit. My husband remembered that our vet had said she might have mild arthritis (I didn't think it happened this young, but apparently it does) and that we might consider getting a lower litter box for her to get into. She hadn't eaten anything in a while and so he created a makeshift litter box out of an aluminum pan whose side he cut off and then folded over to make sure no sharp edges.

Anyways, I put some paper litter and hay in it and she slowly crawled into it and started eating. It was really slow at first but then she suddenly livened up and was eating very energetically. She then even wiggled her nose when I pet her, which she hadn't done all day. She even got a bit feisty when I tried to move her litter box around and jumped up and started chinning it while looking at me lol....guess she liked it where it was

.

She's still very sleepy which I guess it to be expected -- I don't get much sleep either when I have tons of congestion

. But we found a humidifier in the closet that we can let her sleep with tonight which is better than this pot, because I keep having to refill it every hour or two. I can see a booger in each of her nostrils right now too lol but I didn't want to try to get them just yet because she's eating and I didn't want to cause her to get upset or run away. But I'll get them once she's finished.

I put a heating pad down on the floor too -- normally our rabbits like to be cool rather than warm, but her ears felt a little bit cold. It took a few min, but she's now laying her head and front paws on it, so I think she likes it.

We'll try to find another vet, at least for annual visits and coming up with a treatment plan if they are sick. But we really need someone nearby if possible, at least when we need something immediately that can't wait. Maybe when she gets better if we can get her vaccinated, other places will take her.

Have you ever heard of leaving some vicks near the rabbit (while supervised of course so she doesn't get into it) to help with the congestion? Not applying it to her skin of course but just in her general vicinity to try to help open her nasal passages. I read that some people have done that. But I wonder if it's okay, since I have read that essential oils can be irritating for rabbits even if not touched/ingested.

JBun · Oct 29, 2024

serabeth said:
Have you ever heard of leaving some vicks near the rabbit (while supervised of course so she doesn't get into it) to help with the congestion? Not applying it to her skin of course but just in her general vicinity to try to help open her nasal passages. I read that some people have done that. But I wonder if it's okay, since I have read that essential oils can be irritating for rabbits even if not touched/ingested.

I have heard of it but haven't tried it. Yeah, not applied to the skin, but added to a bowl of hot water when using vapor to assist a rabbits breathing. It's certainly something to consider.

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-snuffles/

Wabbitwiki is such a great resource for rabbit owners. That and medirabbit are two of my preferred sources for fairly reliable rabbit health info. I also use rwaf and rabbit.org, though they're sometimes not as detailed. But all very valuable resources for rabbit owners, as a guide to better understanding common health issues, as well as what the common appropriate vet care is, that a rabbit should typically receive. Which can be important for owners that may not have access to a knowledgeable rabbit vet.

Adding a warm pad was good. When rabbits are unwell, they often get chilled, and even this mild hypothermic state can affect their eating and recovery. A hypothermic rabbit is a rabbit unlikely to eat, and a rabbit not eating will continue to decline. So keeping warm is essential when dealing with a sick rabbit (except when dealing with heat stress).

Though if you're using an electric heat pad, just be careful and don't leave your bun unattended with it. If you do need a more rabbit safe option, a cotton sock filled with dry rice and warmed up in the microwave (check not too hot) is an alternative (wrap in a towel if you need an extra buffer, and chew barrier). Or if you need a more permanent chew resistant heat pad for continued frequent use, there's something called snugglesafe, that's an option as well.

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Veterinary_emergencies

If your bun has arthritis and isn't currently on any meds or supplements, you may want to consider looking into some of the options. Meloxicam is the most commonly used. But being that your bun is young and not older, I'd be reluctant to use it long term due to it's possible effect on the kidneys. Adequan injections might be worth considering. A past member here, had really good results with putting his rabbit on it. Said it really helped restore the buns mobility. It would probably be a better long term solution with a young rabbit affected with early onset arthritis. May be something to discuss with your vet at some point.

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Arthritis

www.disabledrabbits.com/arthritis.html

https://www.rabbitsonline.net/threads/arthritis.106611/

I hope you're able to get your bun on a good treatment plan for this URI, with your current vet working with you, or finding a more knowledgeable vet if you need to. Respiratory infections in rabbits, can sometimes be a complicated thing to deal with, so a good rabbit vet at some point, can be an invaluable thing. But hopefully for now, your current vet will at least get your bun started on some of the needed treatments.

Ruth · Oct 29, 2024

Oh my days. That is terrifying!
I can't suggest anything you can do now. JBun had the best suggestions. Though I might recommend feeding her fresh oregano and mint leaves or even some cold mint tea as it helps clear up sinuses and get the blood running. It won't fix the issue but it might help relieve her slightly.

So it's just a suggestion but maybe she's allergic to something in the house or something that she uses? I ask that because that was the case in my experience when I had a bun that had cold symptoms.

My experience with this was a much more mild case. It was more on the cusp of going terribly as she would tilt her head every once in a while but it didn't last more than a couple minutes. When I got her she came with a cold. From day one she had green snot and would shake her head and tilt it every morning. We had just had some terrible financial trouble and I couldn't afford to take her to the vet. I knew her situation was on the brink of being a disaster but was still treatable, so I gave her fresh oregano, mint, and other herbs several times a day and would bring her outside. After three days the head tilt was gone, in one week all head shaking was gone, in two or three weeks the green snot was gone, and in about a month her sneezing was significantly reduced. I was really really blessed that it cleared up that way and in such a short time. About six months later when it got cool I moved her outside and switched her to a hutch and run I made rather than the one she came with, that was when she stopped sneezing altogether. I think there was something she came with or something about the hutch that she was allergic to and the fresh air helped clear her up. She stopped sneezing altogether. This is part of why I'm totally fine with outside hutches because that was what finally helped her.

serabeth · Oct 29, 2024

Ruth said:
Oh my days. That is terrifying!
I can't suggest anything you can do now. JBun had the best suggestions. Though I might recommend feeding her fresh oregano and mint leaves or even some cold mint tea as it helps clear up sinuses and get the blood running. It won't fix the issue but it might help relieve her slightly.

So it's just a suggestion but maybe she's allergic to something in the house or something that she uses? I ask that because that was the case in my experience when I had a bun that had cold symptoms.

My experience with this was a much more mild case. It was more on the cusp of going terribly as she would tilt her head every once in a while but it didn't last more than a couple minutes. When I got her she came with a cold. From day one she had green snot and would shake her head and tilt it every morning. We had just had some terrible financial trouble and I couldn't afford to take her to the vet. I knew her situation was on the brink of being a disaster but was still treatable, so I gave her fresh oregano, mint, and other herbs several times a day and would bring her outside. After three days the head tilt was gone, in one week all head shaking was gone, in two or three weeks the green snot was gone, and in about a month her sneezing was significantly reduced. I was really really blessed that it cleared up that way and in such a short time. About six months later when it got cool I moved her outside and switched her to a hutch and run I made rather than the one she came with, that was when she stopped sneezing altogether. I think there was something she came with or something about the hutch that she was allergic to and the fresh air helped clear her up. She stopped sneezing altogether. This is part of why I'm totally fine with outside hutches because that was what finally helped her.

You might be right about the possible environmental allergy! She has gotten a lot better just overnight -- instead of curling up in a ball, she was all sprawled out with her legs behind her and relaxed. She was eating normally and hopping around and a lot more lively. Yesterday while cleaning I unplugged an essential oil diffuser I had in the bathroom down the hall from her area. She has no access to that hall or to the bathroom, but the door was open so I would assume it's possible some of the droplets may have made their way down the hall and into her area. I will just leave it unplugged in case that was the cause and not use it on this floor anymore. We've used occasional essential oil diffusers around her brother (he is solo and lives upstairs since he doesn't get along with the male she's bonded to) on the lowest setting and he's never reacted before, so I didn't think about it.

I think the vet may have been right about the arthritis, too -- in addition to the aluminum makeshift litter box, we also got a cat size litter box that has a low entry way, advertised for elderly cats. She's only using the two low litter boxes now and not their usual one. So either she's too tired to go into that one, or maybe it was hurting her joints. I remember when she had a skin infection a few months ago, the vet gave us an NSAID to give her in addition to the antibiotic. When I gave her that NSAID, she was literally racing around and binkying in the air. I thought she was just happy to not have the sore on her paw any more, but maybe the NSAID was making her joints feel better too?

While I would feel badly of course if I caused this exacerbation with that essential oil plugin, at the same time I would be relieved if she continues to clear up and this gets better. Since that would mean it's not an infection but just an allergy or sensitivity to the essential oils. So I would know never to use any around/near her ever again. Probably shouldn't anyways since she seems to be sensitive in general.

JBun · Oct 29, 2024

When dosed correctly for rabbits (higher and more frequent dosing than used for dogs and other animals), meloxicam can definitely cause an arthritic rabbit to be more active. Daily meloxicam was absolutely essential for my elderly buns comfort. She moved much less and more stiffly without it. So it can certainly be beneficial, but just needs to be used more cautiously for a young bun whose kidneys need to last them for many more years than an elderly bun near the end of their life.

I feel I should clarify the difference between a runny nose due to a possible allergy; other environmental factors like excessive dust, chemical irritants, or ammonia build up from the litter box; or a respiratory illness from a bacterial infection.

Allergies, which aren't common with rabbits (but yes, still a possibility), will only be thin clear discharge. The discharge may have a colored look due to dust (hay, pellets, bedding, etc) mixing with the clear discharge, which color will be reflected in the color of the actual dust. Sneezing may be worse when specifically around the offending allergen. Like while sitting in the litter box, eating hay, etc. But don't confuse a true allergy causing airway inflammation and discharge, with a rabbit just sneezing and having a runny nose due to dust or other non allergy irritant in their environment.

Then there are other environmental factors that might cause airway irritation and runny nose. Things like dust, household chemicals or strongly scented irritants (cleaners, scented laundry detergent, perfumes, scented lotions or soaps, air fresheners, new carpet and other building materials off-gassing, to name a few). If your rabbit sneezes a bunch just after you clean, put out clean laundry, shower, put out new hay, new litter, etc, this can be a sign there's something you're using that is causing the irritation. Remember that a rabbits nose is inches above any surface, pretty much most of the time. So anything nose level to them, they will be especially susceptible to breathing any fumes or dust from those surfaces. Again, like with allergies, discharge will be thin and clear, or slightly colored with the coloring of any dust inhaled.

The last is an actual bacterial infection. In all cases where there is thick sticky white or thick yellowish discharge (different from thin discharge colored slightly yellow from yellowish dust), this is an absolute indication of a respiratory bacterial infection. But sometimes you may only see thin clear discharge out of the nose, even though there is an actual bacterial infection causing it. It's just the infection is further up the nose and only the thin discharge is showing. A vet may be able to use their scope to look up the nasal passage and see the actual thick white discharge. This was the case for one of my rabbits that had a URI but only presented with clear discharge from his nose.

These respiratory bacterial infections need to be treated with the correct, usually persistent long term, treatment. Which most often will be the appropriate rabbit safe antibiotic for the bacteria involved, possibly the anti inflammatory meloxicam, and sometimes a mucolytic, sometimes a rabbit safe antihistamine, sometimes nebulizing, sometimes hospitalization and IV antibiotics and oxygen. Actual treatment will be determined by the severity, the symptoms, the bacteria, and what a knowledgeable (hopefully) rabbit vet determines is needed.

There may be other causes for nasal discharge and persistent sneezing as well, like dental problems, tear duct or eye issues, tumors, heart issues, etc.

I can't say anything to natural or herbal treatments, as it's not something I've tried. But I have read of other first hand accounts from other knowledgeable rabbit owners, that used natural supplements like echinacea, and who reported a belief that it benefited their rabbits recovery. Though this was often in conjunction with the usual prescribed meds for a URI. So there may be some benefit from the use of safe natural supplements. But I would caution that if there are signs of severe respiratory illness, pneumonia, or respiratory distress, this isn't the time to be experimenting, including natural supplements, but is a true emergency where prompt vet treatment by a knowledgeable rabbit vet, is absolutely essential.

serabeth · Oct 29, 2024

JBun said:
When dosed correctly for rabbits (higher and more frequent dosing than used for dogs and other animals), meloxicam can definitely cause an arthritic rabbit to be more active. Daily meloxicam was absolutely essential for my elderly buns comfort. She moved much less and more stiffly without it. So it can certainly be beneficial, but just needs to be used more cautiously for a young bun whose kidneys need to last them for many more years than an elderly bun near the end of their life.

I feel I should clarify the difference between a runny nose due to a possible allergy; other environmental factors like excessive dust, chemical irritants, or ammonia build up from the litter box; or a respiratory illness from a bacterial infection.

Allergies, which aren't common with rabbits (but yes, still a possibility), will only be thin clear discharge. The discharge may have a colored look due to dust (hay, pellets, bedding, etc) mixing with the clear discharge, which color will be reflected in the color of the actual dust. Sneezing may be worse when specifically around the offending allergen. Like while sitting in the litter box, eating hay, etc. But don't confuse a true allergy causing airway inflammation and discharge, with a rabbit just sneezing and having a runny nose due to dust or other non allergy irritant in their environment.

Then there are other environmental factors that might cause airway irritation and runny nose. Things like dust, household chemicals or strongly scented irritants (cleaners, scented laundry detergent, perfumes, scented lotions or soaps, air fresheners, new carpet and other building materials off-gassing, to name a few). If your rabbit sneezes a bunch just after you clean, put out clean laundry, shower, put out new hay, new litter, etc, this can be a sign there's something you're using that is causing the irritation. Remember that a rabbits nose is inches above any surface, pretty much most of the time. So anything nose level to them, they will be especially susceptible to breathing any fumes or dust from those surfaces. Again, like with allergies, discharge will be thin and clear, or slightly colored with the coloring of any dust inhaled.

The last is an actual bacterial infection. In all cases where there is thick sticky white or thick yellowish discharge (different from thin discharge colored slightly yellow from yellowish dust), this is an absolute indication of a respiratory bacterial infection. But sometimes you may only see thin clear discharge out of the nose, even though there is an actual bacterial infection causing it. It's just the infection is further up the nose and only the thin discharge is showing. A vet may be able to use their scope to look up the nasal passage and see the actual thick white discharge. This was the case for one of my rabbits that had a URI but only presented with clear discharge from his nose.

These respiratory bacterial infections need to be treated with the correct, usually persistent long term, treatment. Which most often will be the appropriate rabbit safe antibiotic for the bacteria involved, possibly the anti inflammatory meloxicam, and sometimes a mucolytic, sometimes a rabbit safe antihistamine, sometimes nebulizing, sometimes hospitalization and IV antibiotics and oxygen. Actual treatment will be determined by the severity, the symptoms, the bacteria, and what a knowledgeable (hopefully) rabbit vet determines is needed.

There may be other causes for nasal discharge and persistent sneezing as well, like dental problems, tear duct or eye issues, tumors, heart issues, etc.

I can't say anything to natural or herbal treatments, as it's not something I've tried. But I have read of other first hand accounts from other knowledgeable rabbit owners, that used natural supplements like echinacea, and who reported a belief that it benefited their rabbits recovery. Though this was often in conjunction with the usual prescribed meds for a URI. So there may be some benefit from the use of safe natural supplements. But I would caution that if there are signs of severe respiratory illness, pneumonia, or respiratory distress, this isn't the time to be experimenting, including natural supplements, but is a true emergency where prompt vet treatment by a knowledgeable rabbit vet, is absolutely essential.

We have an appointment with her vet tomorrow. My husband asked if we could get in sooner, but apparently the rabbit vet was not working today. They basically just had recommendations for what we're already doing. Luckily though, she is definitely doing better. She's a bit more sleepy and is not eating quite as much or as quickly and she is sneezing every so often, but other than that, her behavior is actually pretty normal. Definitely better than yesterday. Otherwise I might have tried to find another emergency vet that would take us without the vaccine. But since she's doing better, I think she's ok to wait until tomorrow.

I think based on what you said that it probably is an infection then, rather than an allergy. It was difficult to tell the color of the mucus when it was dried on her fur. But she was eating a lot of it because she kept trying to clean it off her face, and every time she would sneeze, I would see her tongue come out and she'd eat it

. She's also very resistant to me trying to clean her off, but we did try to get some of it off her at least to minimize how much she ate.

But anyways, it's definitely yellow-green because it came out in her poop earlier today. It was very gross, but definitely looked like a partially dried out wad of snot. I'm trying to encourage her to drink so she can thin out the mucus, but for some reason, she does not want to drink water. I even tried adding a splash of rose water to her bowl -- I read that they like that, and she likes herbal mixtures with roses. But she wouldn't drink it. I got her to eat some leaves (I think it's like a spring mix with spinach) with water on them, but she is refusing to drink out of any bowl I put in front of her -- I've tried 3 different ones at different temperatures in her favorite locations. I also gave her a tiny bit of apple and grape since she loves those and they have water. I can't give her too much at once though because she loves fruit and tries to inhale them, which makes her start sneezing and sniffling even more.

I've noticed she feels skinnier though, which is worrying to me. I can feel her spine now and I couldn't feel it as prominently before without pressing down. I tried to get her to eat extra pellets, but she just ate around her normal amount and then stopped. I did put some extra pellets next to her last night and she'd eaten those by the morning, so at least there is that. I think it's because it's annoying to her that she can't breathe very well through her nose and eat at the same time.

As far as other potential issues, I'm hoping those would have been caught at their last annual exam, which was just 2 months ago in late August. Of course her breathing was fine for that appointment, so they didn't give us a prescription for nebulizer like I'd asked. I really think that would help clear her nasal passages out and keep things moist so there's not tons of dried snot stuck up there. It would at least be easier to suction if her mucous membranes were wet. We only got snot out of the front of her nose (with the bulb) that was still liquid but I can hear more up there when she sniffles. I'm afraid to stick it up further though because I know you're not supposed to do that with human babies since you could rupture something in their nose -- I assume rabbits might have similar issues.

Anyways, thank you again for all of the information you've provided

! I definitely have some resources bookmarked now. And will be looking to get all 3 bunnies vaccinated once she's feeling better. Mostly just so we aren't denied emergency care if we need it for them, because I really don't think that they are at risk in any way since they are 100% indoors. Her brother is our baby since he's a solo rabbit spending all his time with us, and I think I would have died if they'd denied him care when he had GI stasis a year and a half ago. As it was, I made my husband drive us at like 2am to a different state with the bunny on my lap. But he wasn't eating or pooping and I didn't know how long he had left. Though the vet there said he was still in pretty good shape since his body temp was still normal. They still kept him overnight and force fed him through a syringe until he pooped.

JBun · Oct 29, 2024

I'm glad you got an appointment, even if you are having to wait an extra day. It can be hard when trying to deal with these vet complications and having a sick bun you're trying to get helped.

With the mucous in the poop. It's not likely to be related to ingesting the nasal discharge. Mucous in a rabbits poop is usually from digestive irritation. If you fed your rabbit anything new that she isn't used to eating, this can be a cause, as a rabbits microflora needs time to adapt to new foods, usually gradually introduced is best. But I know you're just trying your best to get her eating or drinking anything at all.

A rabbit that has had problems eating and/or GI stasis, may also have some signs of mucous in the poop due to the gut slowdown causing GI irritation. But if there's continued mucous in the poop, worsening mucous, or threads of mucous, this can be a more serious sign of GI illness.

https://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Generalities/Enteritis_en.htm

Best of luck at the vets tomorrow.

serabeth · Oct 29, 2024

Thank you! I really hope the mucous was just a sign of irritation then, and not some kind of GI infection

. None of her other poop today has had any of the snot in it. I did take a picture of it to show to the vet, but I threw it away immediately after. Hopefully that's okay and it didn't need to be tested or something. It looked a little like the image to the right of the poop with threads in it, although in that image, it looks a lot more wet. Hers was pretty dried. I picked it up to look at it and it didn't leave any wet residue on my hands. There also wasn't very much of it -- a small chunk about the size of my finger tip, maybe. I think she really needs to drink more water. I hope we don't end up having to force her to drink via syringe. I've never been good at handling the bunnies when it comes to giving medications or other treatment. Usually I've been able to get away with things like putting their medication on a leaf or a treat. They always fight me so hard on it when I try to put the syringe in their mouth.

JBun · Oct 30, 2024

If the mucous in her poop was just that occurrence, it's likely fine and was just some temporary irritation, which can be a common thing when having a bun that's unwell with normal eating disrupted. It's just when it continues or worsens, that it becomes concerning. So I think you're ok there. Just something to keep an eye on.

These have a better picture of the type you probably saw. Both are also a good picture guide to understanding the changes in bunny poop and what it can mean (just what every bunny owner hopes for

).

https://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/drop/Drp_en.htm

https://bunssb.org/bunnies/guide-bunny-poops/

serabeth · Oct 30, 2024

Update after the vet appointment. They said they thought she was fine and just had a local infection in her nose. They helped to clean off some of the snot but said she might lose some of the fur around her nose. They prescribed an antibiotic to give twice daily starting tomorrow, since they started her with an injection of it today.

This may be a dumb question, but has anyone ever tried using a decongestant on a bunny? I use Sinex at night due to my chronically closed nasal passages and was thinking of giving her some. Poor thing is just sitting there sniffling and sounding so congested; it would be nice to be able to give her some relief.

All I could find online about it was this study. I can’t access the full article, but they were studying effects of long term use of nasal decongestant sprays. Only the 2 and 4 week groups suffered negative effects, so presumably the 1 week group was fine. I just want to give her 1 spray, not to use it for 1 week.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8928640/

JBun · Oct 31, 2024

The only cold meds that I know of being used for rabbits are the mucolytic bisolvon (bromhexine hydrochloride) syrup in the UK, and the antihistamines benedryl (diphenhydramine) and piriton (chlorphenamine). Liquid benedryl (diphenhydramine, no artificial sweeteners) is the only one of those that I've used for my rabbit with a URI, and it did help him quite a bit.

You probably should stick with one of those, or others, that aren't just mentioned in a study, but are currently used by vets, for treating rabbit URIs. Phoning your vet for a recommendation and dosage info, would be the easiest way to know what's safe to use.

serabeth · Oct 31, 2024

JBun said:
The only cold meds that I know of being used for rabbits are the mucolytic bisolvon (bromhexine hydrochloride) syrup in the UK, and the antihistamines benedryl (diphenhydramine) and piriton (chlorphenamine). Liquid benedryl (diphenhydramine, no artificial sweeteners) is the only one of those that I've used for my rabbit with a URI, and it did help him quite a bit.

You probably should stick with one of those, or others, that aren't just mentioned in a study, but are currently used by vets, for treating rabbit URIs. Phoning your vet for a recommendation and dosage info, would be the easiest way to know what's safe to use.

Yeah, I’m not sure how much I trust this vet. She’s not terrible, but sometimes I feel like she rattles off information about rabbits that is only maybe partially true or even sounds off. But I think you’re right that I shouldn’t try Sinex since there’s no official dosing for that for bunnies. Plus, she seems a lot better again today. Just sniffling a bit but has only sneezed a small number of times instead of a bunch in a row.

Speaking of the vet, I had tossed a couple of leaves in the carrier to try to get Bonnie to go inside and a few were left in there when the vet opened the carrier. It was from a prepackaged container of mixed greens. One of the leaves was spinach, and she said to not give the bunnies any spinach or they would get kidney stones.

I was under the impression as long as I didn’t feed them too much spinach or only spinach that it was fine occasionally when rotated with other greens. I’m fine cutting it out if I need to, but I’ve found info online that says spinach is either good or okay, in moderation. What do you think? They like but don’t love spinach so if I need to I can cut it out. But with this and so many other greens, it seems any one in excess can cause health problems in bunnies. So I don’t want to cut out everything that could potentially cause issues, since that would limit the variety quite a bit.

JBun · Oct 31, 2024

If you were feeding a handful of spinach or other high calcium/oxalate greens every day, or you had a bladder sludge prone bun, then yes, it might be a problem. As long as you aren't seeing too much calcium sediment in the urine, and you don't have a bun prone to bladder sludge or kidney issues, then as long as you don't feed too much high calcium/oxalate greens, I don't think it's likely to be an issue in my opinion.

But that's just a guess, and I can't say that for absolute certainty. I haven't ever had a rabbit with a kidney stone, just a few with bladder sludge issues that I've had to manage. But I've also never fed spinach on a consistent basis, just occasionally and in very small amounts, and have always been careful not to feed any high calcium or oxalate food in excess to any of my rabbits, not just the bladder sludge prone buns. I have fed parsley fairly regularly, also a high calcium/oxalate green, but only a small sprig or two each time. Mostly for the non bladder sludge prone buns, and it didn't ever result in health problems for the 10 years I fed it to my group of rabbits.

When determining the best diet for each rabbit, I generally go off what I'm seeing in my rabbits urine and poop (and body condition) to determine if what I'm feeding is working as a balanced diet for them. Too much calcium sediment in the urine means they're getting more than their body needs and working those kidneys harder. Mushy cecotropes means there's too much sugar, not enough fiber, and/or a sensitivity to a particular food usually, so an adjustment there is needed. I used to feed romaine all the time to my other rabbits, no problem, but my current rabbit can't have it at all or she gets watery cecotropes. I've had to reduce pellets and other higher carb foods for some rabbits because of sensitivity issues, I've had to increase pellets for other rabbits because of eating problems and weight loss. I've had to restrict high calcium/oxalate greens because of bladder sludge issues. So diet really can vary for each rabbit.

I've had a few rabbits that weren't sensitive to their diet pretty much at all, and a lot of rabbits that were sensitive, and diets needed adjustments accordingly. So it's all about learning those common signs of there being a possible imbalance or problem, and always just having an eye out for them. That's how I've done it for the last decade or so, as I've developed a better understanding of rabbit health and diet, and it seems to be working out ok for the rabbits I've cared for during that time.

But if you aren't sure or feel you don't have enough knowledge on diet balance and related health issues, it might be better to follow the vet's suggestion and stick with the lower calcium/oxalate greens.

This is a pretty decent guide on a balanced pet rabbits diet, with references, with only a few suggestions I don't care for. But no suggestion is an absolute to follow, as diet may need adjustments for a particular rabbits individual dietary needs, like digestive sensitivities, bladder/kidney issues, age related needs, or reproductive and nursing needs, as well as an owners location and access to available resources.

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Vegetables

serabeth · Nov 3, 2024

JBun said:
If you were feeding a handful of spinach or other high calcium/oxalate greens every day, or you had a bladder sludge prone bun, then yes, it might be a problem. As long as you aren't seeing too much calcium sediment in the urine, and you don't have a bun prone to bladder sludge or kidney issues, then as long as you don't feed too much high calcium/oxalate greens, I don't think it's likely to be an issue in my opinion.

But that's just a guess, and I can't say that for absolute certainty. I haven't ever had a rabbit with a kidney stone, just a few with bladder sludge issues that I've had to manage. But I've also never fed spinach on a consistent basis, just occasionally and in very small amounts, and have always been careful not to feed any high calcium or oxalate food in excess to any of my rabbits, not just the bladder sludge prone buns. I have fed parsley fairly regularly, also a high calcium/oxalate green, but only a small sprig or two each time. Mostly for the non bladder sludge prone buns, and it didn't ever result in health problems for the 10 years I fed it to my group of rabbits.

When determining the best diet for each rabbit, I generally go off what I'm seeing in my rabbits urine and poop (and body condition) to determine if what I'm feeding is working as a balanced diet for them. Too much calcium sediment in the urine means they're getting more than their body needs and working those kidneys harder. Mushy cecotropes means there's too much sugar, not enough fiber, and/or a sensitivity to a particular food usually, so an adjustment there is needed. I used to feed romaine all the time to my other rabbits, no problem, but my current rabbit can't have it at all or she gets watery cecotropes. I've had to reduce pellets and other higher carb foods for some rabbits because of sensitivity issues, I've had to increase pellets for other rabbits because of eating problems and weight loss. I've had to restrict high calcium/oxalate greens because of bladder sludge issues. So diet really can vary for each rabbit.

I've had a few rabbits that weren't sensitive to their diet pretty much at all, and a lot of rabbits that were sensitive, and diets needed adjustments accordingly. So it's all about learning those common signs of there being a possible imbalance or problem, and always just having an eye out for them. That's how I've done it for the last decade or so, as I've developed a better understanding of rabbit health and diet, and it seems to be working out ok for the rabbits I've cared for during that time.

But if you aren't sure or feel you don't have enough knowledge on diet balance and related health issues, it might be better to follow the vet's suggestion and stick with the lower calcium/oxalate greens.

This is a pretty decent guide on a balanced pet rabbits diet, with references, with only a few suggestions I don't care for. But no suggestion is an absolute to follow, as diet may need adjustments for a particular rabbits individual dietary needs, like digestive sensitivities, bladder/kidney issues, age related needs, or reproductive and nursing needs, as well as an owners location and access to available resources.

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Vegetables

Thank you for this information!

Additional question, if you happen to know....Google hasn't been very helpful

. She seems to be healing, but she will not let me clean her face. As a result, there is tons of dried snot that unfortunately has dried in part over her nostrils and just inside the opening.

She seems to find cotton swabs painful, so I ditched that idea and grabbed some cotton balls and got them a little bit wet. I then put my arm behind her and tried to clean off her nose. She will not hold still, no matter how much I try to console her or offer treats, give pets/breaks in between attempts, etc. I cannot get in there if she won't hold still.

Do I need to get my husband and have one of us just pin her in place and hold her head still? I don't like the idea of doing this at all, but I think it's necessary to somehow clean it off because she keeps struggling a bit, cleaning off a little with her paws, then she's ok for an hour or so, and then she starts struggling again. So if we have to, we will. I just really don't want to hurt her with a full restraint if I don't have to.

The swipes I've managed to get on her nose/near her nostrils do keep coming back light yellowish green, so I'm getting tiny bits of snot off. But it's crusty, so I really need to just get in there. This is super weird I know, but I was desperate -- I wet my pinky and tried to pick her nose lol. I actually got a bit more, but she freaked out and ran away after that...

I wish I could just have her stay still for me for like 30 seconds and I could quickly go in with a wet cotton swab and grab it all. But she really hates being restrained.

Any ideas? Google told me to put saline drops in her nose to loosen the snot. Google also said never do that because they can only breathe through their nose and you'll suffocate them. So I don't know what to do. The vet gave us some saline gel, but told us it was for cleaning her fur and didn't specifically mention cleaning her nostrils. In fact, she told us we should try to remain as hands-off as possible...

JBun · Nov 4, 2024

Is it significantly impeding her ability to breath adequately? If not, I wouldn't stress her and just leave it. As the medication gets to working and the discharge starts clearing up, she should gradually be able to clean off the old discharge on her own with her daily grooming.

If she's not able to manage cleaning it off on her own, and/or it is significantly impacting her ability to breath adequately, then since your vet said to be hands off, it would be best to consult with them as to the best method to clean it off. Something like a little olive oil might help loosen up the mucous just at the nose opening (not inside the nose), but talk to your vet first.

There are some handling methods shown in the links below, but again, talk to your vet first, as improper handling can sometimes result in serious injuries occurring.

(handling info under 'force feeding')
https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Medicating_your_rabbit

https://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Transport/Transp_main.htm

serabeth · Nov 4, 2024

JBun said:
Is it significantly impeding her ability to breath adequately? If not, I wouldn't stress her and just leave it. As the medication gets to working and the discharge starts clearing up, she should gradually be able to clean off the old discharge on her own with her daily grooming.

If she's not able to manage cleaning it off on her own, and/or it is significantly impacting her ability to breath adequately, then since your vet said to be hands off, it would be best to consult with them as to the best method to clean it off. Something like a little olive oil might help loosen up the mucous just at the nose opening (not inside the nose), but talk to your vet first.

There are some handling methods shown in the links below, but again, talk to your vet first, as improper handling can sometimes result in serious injuries occurring.

(handling info under 'force feeding')
https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Medicating_your_rabbit

https://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Transport/Transp_main.htm

Before I read this, we did try having my husband hold her and me clean it off. He was able to hold her head still but it was actually very difficult to clean the snot out. I tried warm water and cotton balls, cotton swabs, even my fingers. I got a booger out of her nose partway but it was stuck on her whisker and I was afraid of yanking it out. By that point, I was afraid we might be stressing her out so we just stopped.

I had only gotten to one nostril, but I would have had to use my fingernails there to get it out. She is very tiny -- 2.44 lbs. -- I'm pretty sure my fingernail would scratch her nose or even cut it and I really didn't want to cause opportunity for another infection there. She seemed fine after, luckily -- didn't thump at us or run away since she knew we had a treat for her after the handling

.

Jeff is going to call the vet in the morning to see whether they can recommend something to clean her. If I can't even clean her when she's held still, then I don't think she can unless her body purges it herself. It's difficult to tell how much it is stressing her or causing her to have difficulty breathing. It's definitely causing some degree of that, especially when she is eating. She will be eating and suddenly make these gagging noises that sound like a duck quacking

. She doesn't know what's happening, so she's usually scared of the quacking noise that she made and runs and hides under something.

If I go to where she is hiding, I usually then see her sitting up on her hind legs and licking her front paws and using them to wipe her face -- usually to little effect. If I very gently use a damp cotton ball and don't try to scrub or anything, she'll sit still and let me help. It doesn't help that much, but I do it because I always end up with a greenish-yellow cotton ball, so I figure it's at least getting some off. I laid down next to her so I could observe her breathing. It was definitely a little harder than usual, but she wasn't using her accessory muscles or heaving or making much noise other than a soft snore-like sound. I could see the dried snot going up and down out of her nose as she breathed.

We then had the idea to take the humidifier out of our bedroom and down to their area. We weren't doing the pot thing anymore since we had something cooking upstairs. I set it up and turned it on high. She sat in front of it for several hours and seemed to be having an easier time breathing. Occasionally sniffling but no more gaging sounds. So I'll just leave it here for her since it's a cool mist humidifier it should be safe to leave overnight unlike the pot of water.

Emergency vet won't take bunny -- she has a cold :(

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