Suggestions for Subq LR Administration

samoth · Jul 10, 2024

Anyone have suggestions for an 11.5 year old dutch female who needs 60mL of lactated ringer's daily?

She has always been a very strong, feisty girl who will behave for strangers in a strange land (vet in vet's office), but not her human in her home.

Maybe I'm just not good enough with the bunny burritoing yet, but she really fights me constraining her. She's never tolerated oral administration via syringe, either.

Watermelons · Jul 11, 2024

Bunny burritons are hard to get perfect. And for sneaky critters you have to be good.
I did a quick how to forever ago, hope this link works....
https://www.rabbitsonline.net/threads/difficult-to-medicate.62632/post-842699
Its really important to get snug enough around the neck they cant squeeze out but not so snug you strangle them.

JBun · Jul 11, 2024

Covering their eyes while doing it, can sometimes help too. And if you can take your bun to an unfamiliar area or room, that might be enough to get her to settle down and hold still for you. That's how my rabbits have typically behaved when initially in a new place and feeling uncertain about their surroundings.

Or trying a different handling technique, like kneeling on the floor with bun between your legs.

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Medicating_your_rabbit

Mom to Minx · Jul 11, 2024

JBun said:
Covering their eyes while doing it, can sometimes help too. And if you can take your bun to an unfamiliar area or room, that might be enough to get her to settle down and hold still for you. That's how my rabbits have typically behaved when initially in a new place and feeling uncertain about their surroundings.

Or trying a different handling technique, like kneeling on the floor with bun between your legs.

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Medicating_your_rabbit

Mom to Minx · Jul 11, 2024

Thanks JBun…that sounds like a great idea! On the floor with her between my knees!
I have to say I am blessed with a lady in our high rise who comes and helps me!
I do the burrito and she does the meds! Two people really do make a difference! Minx still doesn’t like it but we get the job done!

samoth · Jul 11, 2024

Watermelons said:
Bunny burritons are hard to get perfect. And for sneaky critters you have to be good.
I did a quick how to forever ago, hope this link works....
https://www.rabbitsonline.net/threads/difficult-to-medicate.62632/post-842699
Its really important to get snug enough around the neck they cant squeeze out but not so snug you strangle them.

Thanks!

I laughed when I saw the OP write this: "When I burrito him he ends up pretending he's a turtle and tries to retract his head." That's exactly what my doe does!

I could get to what Watermelons was saying about a strong angled tuck & your pictures, but I need a few inches of space behind the ears to get the syringe in -- I think that's what's making it loose enough for my doe to turtle.

The vets I've seen utilize the hand-over-face technique, but that didn't seem like an option when I need both hands to work the syringe and needle. The needle came out several times while she was struggling, which made the process all the worse for her.

Yesterday was my first time doing this, and I'm sure it's a technique that requires practice. I'm going to try the floor thing, maybe in a random bathroom or closet they don't see much. The trouble with free range buns is that there are no rooms they're not familiar with (save a basement/garage area where I wouldn't want to be performing this sort of procedure).

JBun: Those videos are quite a different technique than I was shown... I'm wondering if not burritoing would work better now...

Watermelons · Jul 11, 2024

If you have better access to the back/butt/rump area.... give the fluids there.
Yes there is more space at the shoulders, but SQ can actually be given elsewhere on the body. It will still absorb the same.

samoth · Jul 12, 2024

Watermelons said:
If you have better access to the back/butt/rump area.... give the fluids there.
Yes there is more space at the shoulders, but SQ can actually be given elsewhere on the body. It will still absorb the same.

Thanks! That's helpful.

I was able to get 50mL in her last night, but she's not doing well. I'm not sure how much longer she'll hold on. She's not in stasis, but just not eating much (in general, and especially for her), with only sporadic interest in treats; she won't take oral meds in fruit anymore, but seems to like to much on grass here & there.

I have some metoclopramide I might start administering, but I think her issue is bladder/urinary due to so many calcifications. When I took her in for imaging around a month ago, her bladder was lit up on the xray like a supernova. The vet said her bladder palpated like a hacky sack and it wasn't solid, but recommended against surgery due to age. She hasn't had a blockage yet, but her urine output is frequent & very small amounts, with some obvious struggling.

Nancy McClelland · Jul 13, 2024

we do a 2 person with anything we do with our bunnies--my son holds and I trim nails--easiest way I know of. I could not do any of them by myself.

samoth · Jul 13, 2024

Nancy McClelland said:
we do a 2 person with anything we do with our bunnies--my son holds and I trim nails--easiest way I know of. I could not do any of them by myself.

That definitely works great when the option's available! It's just a bit more challenging when I have to do it myself, but I can usually make things work

She's perked up a bit as of last night (normal), but... she stayed that way into the morning, and she has been more alert throughout the day today. Appetite is a bit better, too. I've never used metoclopramide before, so I'm not sure if it's due to that drug or not.

samoth · Jul 13, 2024

I found that holding her upright (at a 45 degree angle) in the burrito makes subq & oral administration much easier. When all of her paws are on solid flooring, she really wants to struggle & turtle & paw out of the burrito.

With her upper body raised, I can get one arm under there & operate the plunger while supporting her body & holding her closer to me. (It's not the easiest thing to describe in writing/without pictures, though.) I'm getting oral meds & CC in her while she's in the position, and it's so much easier then my attempts in past years which pretty much always failed.

samoth · Jul 13, 2024

Can't have a thread without pics...

samoth · Sep 13, 2024

Update: I'm pretty good with administering fluids now. I don't need to fully burrito her -- she doesn't like her front legs covered/restrained for whatever reason, so as long as they're free, I can inject her without any struggle or restraint at all.

She got a lot worse to the point I didn't think she'd survive the night. She ended up passing a 7 mm urolith, which must've taken everything out of her -- she was physically exhausted & barely able to move her head, and was collapsing while trying to walk a short ways.

Once that had passed, she slowly & steadily recovered over the next two weeks. She's now better than ever, and behaving like she's 5 years younger.

I'm keeping her on 60 mL LR solution every 4-5 days, and plan to do so for the rest of her life. I don't know why she has issues with calcifications in her bladder when the buck (who eats far fewer greens) doesn't, so it's probably a genetic disposition to some extent. Hopefully with continued fluids, she'll hit 12 years old & keep on going!

JBun · Sep 14, 2024

Yeah, some rabbits seem to just be genetically prone to it. I had a rabbit that was, and even diet changes didn't clear it up completely, though it did help manage it to a good extent for her. My current rabbit is prone as well. I'm able to manage it fairly well, but she is still having some urinary sediment. I've been considering trying a urinary support tab to see if that helps at all. The sherwood ones look good to me. I like the ingredients used, better than some of the other options, so I might try those with her and see how it goes.

I'm glad your bun was able to pass the stone and is doing better. I'll bet you're feeling pretty relieved to be seeing her improving so much afterwards.

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